mimosa + smokeable harmaline freebase

topic posted Fri, March 20, 2009 - 12:15 PM by  James
This is a follow-up to my other post, which several people helpfully responded to. SWIM is somewhat averse to nausea, vomiting and intestinal distress for the valid reason of a physiological pre-existing inflammatory condition of the intestine. That is why SWIM is looking for an easy method of trying an oral aya analogue.

From prior information I gathered that a suitable amount of a purchased harmaline extract, combined with a cold-water extraction of mhrb would be an interesting first try at an aya analogue.

Cold-water extractions are supposed to contain less tannins than the standard jurema tea preparation, so that is the explanation for that.

Harmaline extractions are supposed to be less nausea-inducing and stomach-upsetting than ground Rue.

however, I just discovered that smokeable harmaline freebases are also available. User reports indicate that smoking harmaline freebase is even less nausea inducing than oral extracts.

So my question is, would smokeable harmaline freebase induce the MAOI-inhibiting properties of harmaline, sufficient to potentiate the orally ingested cold-water mhrb tea? Or, should/could the smokeable harmaline freebase be orally ingested to guarantee MAOI inhibition sufficient to potentiate the mhrb tea?

sorry for the overly technical nature of this post but I'm not having much luck finding information on this particular combination in these forms.

posted by:
  • Re: mimosa + smokeable harmaline freebase

    Fri, March 20, 2009 - 4:02 PM
    How are you going to extract Harmaline ?

    Syrian Rue contains'

    Peganine (Vasicine)
    2,3 - Trimethylene-4-quinazolone
    2-Alkoxy-4-quinolone derivative
    Ruine (8-Hydroxy-glucosylharmine
    Dyhydroruine (8 -Hydroxyglucosyl-harmaline
    5- Hydroxytriptamine
    6- Hydroxytriptamine

    Harmaline is very sleepy' fuzzy' some nausia'
    Harmine is quite stimulating'
    Tetrahydroharmine is very clear'

    Oh ok' harmaline extract' sill posses the question' fromwhat ws it extracted from'

    Smoking freebase Harmala's works but it is doubtful it shall potentiate an oral ingestion of spice'
    The maoi needs to be in the gut combined with spice' or combined sublingualy with the spice' or combined and smoked'
    Otherwise the bodies mao system knocks the spice out before it can get to the brain'

    All I can say bro' is experimentation shall show'


    Nobuoni +

    P.S. Harmaline is freebased out of solutions of Harmine' it's effects is quite different to Harmine' and very different from Tetrahydroharmine'
    Tannins are hard on the stomach from Jurema' perhaps you shouldseek toskin the cat from a different direction and use a different extraction'
    • Re: mimosa + smokeable harmaline freebase

      Fri, March 20, 2009 - 5:01 PM
      Thanks Nobuoni

      A very comprehensive response!
      a couple of places are selling harmaline extracts from syrian rue, some are 5x elixers but also "pure" smokeable freebase

      but i hear you about oral probably working better

      SWIM shall experiment and report back
  • Re: mimosa + smokeable harmaline freebase

    Sat, March 21, 2009 - 12:54 PM
    @James Yes, smoking harmaline freebase would work. It would require about 150-250mg of harmaline freebase.
    • Dan
      offline 1

      Re: mimosa + smokeable harmaline freebase

      Sat, March 21, 2009 - 8:19 PM
      smoking harmala is very relaxing and there is no nausea and it ususually ends w/ a peaceful sleep.
      Swims friend will take subligual tetrahydroharmine (150mg) then waits till he starts to feel it (40mins) then 100-150mg harmala extract and 5 mins later blast of 40mg of spice.It definately makes the experience smoother.
      It's all trial and has to experiment to find the levels that they're comfortable with.

      Here is something i copied from a forum i belong might find it helpful.

      ************************** QUOTE**************************************************

      Ayahuasca capsules - all the effect without the nausea

      The following recipe can be used to make nausea free ayahuasca capsules with effects identical to real ayahuasca.

      45 mg DMT fumarate (or 40 mg freebase DMT, but it takes longer to absorb)
      45 mg tetrahydroharmine freebase (Or 52 mg as tetrahydroharmine HCl)
      55 mg harmine freebase
      5 mg harmaline freebase

      Mix together and place in a gelatin capsule that can hold 150 mg. 1 capsule is 1 dose equivalent to 1 mild dose of authentic Santo Daime ayahuasca. The effects are IDENTICAL but without the nausea.

      The harmine, harmaline, and THH (tetrahydroharmine) can all be purchased in pure form legally in most countries. The DMT, well, that’s another story.

      The THH adds the missing piece so often loved by true ayahuasca users. Without it, the experience is not the same as true ayahuasca.

      SWIM has tried this a few times and has had great results from it. SWIM’s excited that now he can have an authentic ayahuasca experience without all the side effects of the plant. SWIM cannot tell the difference between this mix and the real deal. The feeling of it, the visuals, the spiritual quality, all are the same as the real deal but without all the nausea.

      In the past, SWIM tried making pharmahuasca with DMT, harmine and harmaline in various mixes and could never get a true ayahuasca experience from them. The THH is an essential piece. Without it it’s still a potent combination, but it lacks the euphoria, the smoothness, and friendliness of true ayahuasca. The THH really adds a beautiful effect to the experience.
      All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a character based on other people) obtained a license for said activity or did said activity where it is legal to do so
      • Re: mimosa + smokeable harmaline freebase

        Sun, March 22, 2009 - 12:28 AM
        very interesting. The tetrahydroharmine sounds particularly crucial to the experience. Not much available research on it I guess.
        • Re: mimosa + smokeable harmaline freebase

          Sun, March 22, 2009 - 5:41 AM



          Nobuoni +
          • Dan
            offline 1

            Re: mimosa + smokeable harmaline freebase

            Sun, March 22, 2009 - 7:26 AM
            there is quite a bit of discussion on the topic of "THH" ,some of the members are it goes pretty in depth.

            • Dan
              offline 1

              Re: mimosa + smokeable harmaline freebase

              Sun, March 22, 2009 - 7:31 AM
              • Re: mimosa + smokeable harmaline freebase

                Sun, March 22, 2009 - 3:03 PM


                Nobuoni +
                • Re: mimosa + smokeable harmaline freebase

                  Mon, March 23, 2009 - 9:07 AM
                  thanks dan- good information- i have heard that taking the spice as a salt instead of a freebase works better in oral preparations- comment?
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    offline 1

                    Re: mimosa + smokeable harmaline freebase

                    Mon, March 23, 2009 - 1:04 PM
                    Absolutely, without a doubt plus it's better for other injestion methods besides freebase or oral (if that tickles your fancy). Also it stores a lot better as well and a lot longer without losing potency. If you dont already know about "FASA"'s ya go.

                    #SPICE EXTRACTION – The FASA approach by infundibulum


                    This document outlines recent advancement on the extraction of alkaloids from DMT-containing material making use of fumaric acid. This method is used in conjunction with a standard A/B or STB tek and it has the following advantages:

                    1) It requires no defatting of the plant material. Even leafy material that is notoriously high in oils requires NO defatting. Pure white DMT has been extracted from Diplopterys cabrerana using FASA with the same easiness and defat-free steps as with MHRB.

                    2) It requires no recrystallisation of the product neither any freeze precipitations. One may however try to crystallise the final product if one wants to create big crystals

                    3) One knows exactly when to stop pulling when using the non-polar solvent

                    4) The NP solvent can be used again and again and again. That is, there is no need for evaporation of the NP solvent. This saves money, it is minimally smelly and more eco-friendly.

                    5) The initial product of this extraction is a stable dmt salt (dmt fumarate) that can be used as such (snorted or orally in conjunction with a MAOI), stored for long periods of time or freebased for smoking.

                    The Theory:

                    This method is using fumaric acid to salt out freebase dmt from non-polar solvent(s). The DMT-fumarate is totally insoluble in non-polar solvents as well as acetone from which it precipitates out almost instantly. These properties can help get the DMT (and other alkaloids) out of non-polar solutions in salted form while any fatty impurities present stay behind. DMT-fumarate resulting from this step can be easily freebased as a 2-step process.

                    DMT-fumarate salt

                    1) Fumaric Acid. Fumaric acid is not difficult to obtain. It is sold as a health supplement as well as a psoriasis treatment. Depending on the source, it may be a bit pricey but it is definitely worth the money. 1gram of fumaric acid is enough for salting 3.25grams of DMT.

                    2) Acetone. 100% pure acetone is required. Presence of water in the acetone can mess up with the process.

                    3) Calcium Hydroxide OR Ssodium Carbonate. These are used for freebasing the DMT-fumarate

                    4) Xylene or Toluene as the non-polar solvent.

                    WARNING: Non-polar solvents other than xylene or toluene have not been tested yet. There are some issues with using non-polar solvents other thanxylene/toluene. These will be discussed below.

                    The TEK:

                    Before one starts, FASA (fumaric acid saturated acetone) needs to be generated. This is simply done by mixing an amount of fumaric acid and acetone and leaving it for a day or so to saturate completely. Acetone can hold ~20mg of fumaric acid per ml. A guy that I vaguely know puts loads of fumaric acid in his acetone without weighting it. The excess is just going to fall on the bottom and can be dissolved from fresh acetone if necessary.

                    As long as one has FASA handy, the next steps are:

                    A. Do an A/B or an STB on some plant material using any other teks that can be found around. In the case one chooses to do A/B no defatting of the acidic solution is really necessary.

                    B. Make the first pull using xylene/toluene. After the layers have separated, withdraw the xylene/toluene.

                    C. Add FASA dropwise in the xylene/toluene pull. One cannot add too much FASA. On the contrary, it is advised to add more FASA than necessary, just in case. Immediately clouds of precipitation will form. This is DMT-fumarate.


                    The xylene/toluene pull contains the freebased DMT, the freebased DMT-N-Oxide (in the case of old material where part of DMT has oxidised), Jungle Spice (in the case of MHRB) as well as any other lipid impurities that are picked up by the solvent.

                    Addition of FASA introduces fumaric acid in the xylene/toluene and this reacts immediately with the freebased DMT, the freebased DMT N-Oxide and Jungle spice to form their respective fumarate salts. DMT-fumarate, DMT-N-Oxide-fumarate and Jungle spice-fumarate precipitate out since they are insoluble in xylene/toluene as well as acetone.

                    In contrast, any lipid impurities and any not interesting compounds will be left behind.

                    D. The fumarate salts will take some time to precipitate on the bottom. Shaking vigorously the xylene/toluene that contains the fumarate salts will help them precipitate faster. They seem to coagulate with each other, form bigger clumps and falling to the bottom much faster when left aside.

                    E. The precipitates are then collected and washed with acetone 1-2 times. This helps to remove residual non-polar solvent and any unreacted fumaric acid. The washed fumarate salts can now be dried to a rock hard consistency.

                    NOTE: The fumarate salts of DMT, DMT-N-Oxide and Jungle Spice tend to be a bit hygroscopic, that is they have a gooey consistency upon drying. Given time however, they dry to rock-hard consistency. One is fine drying the salts in the oven at 50 Celsius, this makes things much faster.

                    F. (Optional) After the precipitation of the fumarate salts from the xylene/toluene pull, solvent can be reused. It needs to be washed however since it also contains traces of acetone and any unused fumaric acid. One can simply mix the xylene/toluene with excess of water, shake it vigorously and let it sit. Fumaric acid and acetone will move to the water, while the xylene/toluene will float on top of it. It will look yellow like urine, but it is fine to use for the subsequent pulls. Again, this guy I vaguely know is using the same xylene for 20-30 pulls before he eventually throws it away.

                    G. The whole process can be repeated (with fresh or used xylene solvent) until one gets pulls out of which no precipitation is observed after FASA addition. It usually takes 5-6- xylene pulls for this to happen.

                    That’s it! One now has the plant’s alkaloids in fumarate salt. They can be eaten, snorted or freebased for smoking. Note that the use of xylene/toluene pulls more things out of the plants, such as DMT-N-Oxide which is insoluble to naphtha. The next session describes how the fumarate salts can be freebased.

                    A REMARK:

                    Theoretically any non-polar solvent can be used with the FASA tek. However, this guy I vaguely know observed that some brands of naphtha caused precipitation of the fumaric acid when FASA was added to them. If one wishes to use a non-polar solvent other than xylene/toluene he/she is strongly advised to test whether fumaric acid from FASA precipitates when added in clean, unused solvent.

                    Freebasing the fumarate salts (From salt back to Freebase)

                    This is a fairly straightforward tek that results in freebased alkaloids ready to be smoked. In this step one requires calcium hydroxide or sodium carbonate as well as acetone.

                    A. Mix well equal parts of the fumarate salts and calcium hydroxide or sodium carbonate.

                    B. Add enough water to make it into a paste, but it is still fine if it get more watery. Both calcium hydroxide and sodium carbonate are bases. Under these wet conditions they react with the fumarate salts and release the alkaloids in their freebase form.

                    C. Let the paste dry out completely. It should be totally dry before continuing to the next step.

                    D. Cut the paste into a powder and mix it with acetone. Let the powder precipitate. Acetone will pick up the freebased alkaloids leaving back calcium hydroxide (or sodium carbonate) plus any unwanted fumarate salts (calcium fumarate or sodium fumarate) that have formed during the process of freebasing.

                    E. Aspirate the acetone and let it dry. Now one has freebased alkaloids.

                    F. Step D can be repeated 4-5 times just to make sure all the freebase had been picked up.

                    G. The freebase that results is a mixture of all the different alkaloids that can be pulled using xylene/toluene. This may take some time to get solid, especially if plenty of DMT-N-Oxide is present. DMT-N-Oxide is a yellow oil and albeit perfectly smokable and pretty active it can hinder the solidification of the end product. But given time, it does get solid. And it provides a very intense experience. Alternatively……

                    H. (Optional)… may wish to get pure white DMT out of this mixture. In that case the freebased alkaloids can be washed with naphtha. Naphtha will pick all DMT leaving back DMT-N-Oxide and Jungle spice (if MHRB had been used.

                    That’s it! Enjoy the fruits of your efforts. Share the spice with all your friends. Never sell it. This document is not copyrighted, it belongs to everybody.

                    Credit for this Tek need to go to pretty much everybody, but especially to 69ron for giving the fumaric inspiration and proposing the very simple freebasing step, as well as amor_fati for trying both the FASA tek and the proposed freebasing method successfully.

                    this is simply an exchange of information solely for the purpose of scientific theory, i would never recommend anyone breaking the i am a compulsive liar and should not be taken seriously.
                    • Re: mimosa + smokeable harmaline freebase

                      Mon, March 23, 2009 - 2:17 PM
                      Dan' no copy and paste tecs' from DMT-NEXUS to here'

                      We can all go to NEXUS and read it for ourselves ! !

                      Also' you have first hand experience of this comment'

                      Absolutely, without a doubt plus it's better for other injestion methods besides freebase or oral (if that tickles your fancy). Also it stores a lot better as well and a lot longer without losing potency. If you dont already know about "FASA"'s ya go.

                      Be safe'

                      Be well'

                      Nobuoni +
                      • Dan
                        offline 1

                        Re: mimosa + smokeable harmaline freebase

                        Mon, March 23, 2009 - 3:14 PM
                        Not trying to break any rules by "copy paste" , was just trying to help someone who had some questions and if that means "the nexus" gets another member....all the better. Now that i am aware of the rules i will not copy and paste.
                        I never said i had first hand experience with anything that would break any laws. Thanx for the heads up though.
                        peace,love and light
                        • Re: mimosa + smokeable harmaline freebase

                          Mon, March 23, 2009 - 3:55 PM
                          thank you dan. im already a member of the nexus, & i could have looked it up myself... is it really bad to copy paste, nubo? no offence, but a few of the recipes that you have posted are from other sources, maybe not copy & pasted but pretty much word for word...
                          • Re: mimosa + smokeable harmaline freebase

                            Mon, March 23, 2009 - 4:40 PM
                            Only of personal experience from me' of all my techs' worked myself'

                            Ok' Thank you Dan I am already a member of Nexus'

                            Urtica' as to word for word' I publish other peoples work you are saying ?
                            Or I work my own techs and publish the results'

                            My personal site ahs no thin gto do wih public forums'
                            It is for resarch purposes'
                            I am insulted that you say I publish other peoples work and say it is mine'
                            Could you show me these recipies I have used word for word of other folks please'


                            Nobuoni +

                            • Re: mimosa + smokeable harmaline freebase

                              Tue, March 24, 2009 - 11:42 AM
                              i am not trying to say that you do not work the techniques yourself first and then post them, just that the basic recipe was made by somebody else, as most recipes are. we are all working off of one another's ideas all the time, that is the beauty of these communities- sharing of information. i very much appreciate all of the research that you do, nubononi. for a concrete example, a recipe that you posted elsewhere about 5-HO was originally posted on erowid by someone doing research in brazil, calling themselves baron. the recipe was posted on erowid august 23, 2007. your recipe was first posted january 27, 2008. the title of the erowid report is 'yaporized extract' & is in the a. colubrina vault.
                              • Re: mimosa + smokeable harmaline freebase

                                Tue, March 24, 2009 - 2:09 PM
                                You are welcome James'

                                Urtica' I can find no post' I can only find a Bufotenine Yopo/vilca' posted this year somewhen' very recently'

                                posted january 27, 2008

                                Here is the list for all 2008'

                                22 replies 02/12/09

                                voacanga africana
                                15 replies 02/06/09

                                New Ganja Extracts
                                39 replies 01/20/09

                                3 replies 01/13/09

                                Importance of a MAOI diet'
                                posted 01/08/09

                                Acorus Calamus
                                posted 01/02/09

                                Silene and weed' Lucid dreaming
                                10 replies 12/21/08

                                glass basters
                                2 replies 10/18/08

                                10 replies 07/11/08

                                Calcium morphenate VS Actyl Morphine
                                2 replies 05/21/08

                                HELP !!!
                                14 replies 04/30/08

                                Brugmansia Suaviolens
                                3 replies 04/13/08

                                San Pedro
                                7 replies 04/13/08

                                Phalaris arundinacea (Red canary grass):
                                5 replies 04/12/08

                                Questions folks
                                11 replies 02/22/08

                                edible lime as a base
                                27 replies 02/20/08

                                54 replies 02/15/08

                                posted 02/13/08

                                Fence post tea bag droole'
                                10 replies 01/28/08

                                There is no post from the 01/19/08 until the 01/28/08

                                7 replies 01/19/08

                                Kratom Extraction
                                3 replies 01/06/08

                                Simple Ayahuasca recipe
                                3 replies 12/30/07

                                salvinorin extraction
                                1 reply 12/22/07

                                Alternate keyboard codes
                                8 replies 12/10/07

                                making ethanol
                                4 replies 12/08/07

                                20 replies 12/02/07

                                1 reply 11/27/07

                                Jungle spice.
                                8 replies 11/26/07

                                States of matter'
                                1 reply 11/23/07

                                Plants containing tryptamines
                                6 replies 11/19/07

                                Properties of alkaloids salts and bases
                                1 reply 11/19/07

                                Eh he' Never mind'

                                Be well'

                                Nobuoni +

                                • Re: mimosa + smokeable harmaline freebase

                                  Tue, March 24, 2009 - 5:54 PM
                                  yeah- the villca post. originally posted jan 27 08- the latest comment is very recent.
                                  threaded | unthreaded | newest first tribes » Other » » topics »
                                  Yopo and Vilca seed Bufotenine extraction'topic posted Sun, January 27, 2008 - 1:37 PM by Nobuoni +
                                  • Re: mimosa + smokeable harmaline freebase

                                    Wed, March 25, 2009 - 12:13 AM

                                    Be well ~

                                    Nobuoni +
                                    • Re: mimosa + smokeable harmaline freebase

                                      Wed, March 25, 2009 - 1:40 AM
                                      The tech no works' so if it is on erowid it is bollocks' if you had bothered to read on you shall notice the tech was stripped to pieces and re-done in a completely different way so as to isolate asingle alkaloid'
                                      All my techs come from experimentations and write ups by myself and others'

                                      The tech you mention is complete rubbish' it was posted on my private site' with the strict purpose of having a grounding to start from'
                                      As mentioned my private site has no thing to do with open forum' you are out of order ! !

                                      I find it very sad that you have to pull me on some elses bullshit'
                                      The person who wrote the original tech and the one on erowid is lying' they never done the tech in the first place' it no works'

                                      The tech you mention was written by me and the result was no Bufotenine'

                                      The working tech is my copyright'

                                      This is why there is a comment on the post about no copy and pasting other folks work ot the internet'
                                      A large majority of techs posted by layman are crude attempts at alkaloid isolation that give contaminated end products'

                                      This is why I made a "PRIVATE" chem site' so as we can get a chance to cut through all the bullshit ! !

                                      So you get of what you wished for brother'

                                      Be well'

                                      Nobuoni +

                                      P.S. My original comment about copy pasting chem techs here is grounded in the fact that this is no the place to discuss chemistry'
                                      Your pulling me on one tech'
                                      that obviously no works' if you had took the trouble to work it yourself' you would know for yourself'

                                      I find all of your bitching very SAD ! !

                                      If you have this knowledge' then why no you share it with us so we can become enlightened also' and show of how to isolate a single alkaloid from Yopo' the way our tech explains it all'

                                      Bliss ~
                        • Re: mimosa + smokeable harmaline freebase

                          Mon, March 23, 2009 - 4:26 PM
                          Actually, you didn't break any rules Dan. Not any which apply to this forum at least.

                          A source link to the copy and paste would have brought you completely up to code though, as far as our own unspoken "rules" go. If dmtnexus prohibits distribution of its content, that's a different matter. I did dig your disclaimer though ;-)
                          • Dan
                            offline 1

                            Re: mimosa + smokeable harmaline freebase

                            Mon, March 23, 2009 - 7:58 PM
                            all my inquiries and research were based on the building blocks of others, that did research before me (i do not take any credit for other peoples work).... and like i said, it's only reaserch on a very interesting topic.
                            Ofcourse, if anyone were to do a somewhat in depth search on matters such as "THH" and "DMT Fumerate" it might yield some basic results.....i was simply trying to help direct some inquiries to a source of info.

                            Most NUBO's will follow teks "word for word", untill they get a sense of levels they are comfortable with, or will make adjustments based on "hypothetical results".

                            As far as my apparent poor copy and paste skillz, well......... i dont even really see how that's significant, my main intention (other than finding,friendly,likeminded individuals) was to try and contribute some findings i have made during my path and what one does with these findings is up to them.

                            Members of "the nexus" should know that most of it's members are generous with their info and i guess i'm a little suprised at the unwarrented criticism but, oh well.

                            I just hope that someone took something away from this ENTIRE thread that they find useful and will help them along with their path.
                            -Peace to ALL
                            • Re: mimosa + smokeable harmaline freebase

                              Mon, March 23, 2009 - 8:22 PM

                              Most NUBO's will follow teks "word for word", untill they get a sense of levels they are comfortable with, or will make adjustments based on "hypothetical results".

                              Well no being a NUBO I would have no clue of "word for word" (The name here is possed as a pisstake of my name by someone who believes they can get familiar with me' they are sorely mistaken)

                              My name is Nobuoni +

                              Chemistry is chemistry'

                              I just find this an inappropriate place to talk chemistry'

                              Reduction of Harmine shall give you tetrahydroharmine'

                              You can soak mimosa in methanol/ethanol' evaporate' or extract with H2O'
                              Or A/B extract your alkaloids' you can extract with acetone' you can convert the "spice" in many solutions to different state salts'
                              You can extract Harmala alkaloids from Syrian Rue with saturated salt solution in the fridge then freebase the alks with ammonia solution'

                              DMT can be processed in many salt forms from' ascorbate' sulphate' hcl' acetate' citrate' fumerate' ' etc' etc' etc'

                              The list of plants "Spice" is extractable from is longer than my arm'

                              I would suggest that other than "senarios" of proposed teks here' you join a site that is open to answering your questions educatedly'
                              I am well qualified to do so on many chemistry subjects' but find it inappropriate here on open forum'

                              DMT-NEXUS shall give you all your answers'

                              I wish you well and success in your quest for knowledge brother'


                              Nobuoni +

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