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DMT safe or dangerous ?

topic posted Sun, October 22, 2006 - 9:39 PM by  Unsubscribed
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people along the way have made reference to the saftey of repeated use of DMT, myself, have smoked DMT around 100 times with only 40 break-thrus.......Daniel Pinchbeck said in BOTH he felt intuitivley that it was not meant to be done a repeatedly, I heard a recording of Terence mckenna say that he had only smoked it around 30 times, my friend said that it is in fact "Brain Food" that the brain seeks out purposley (blood brain barrier) confirmed by Struasmans "DMT spirit molocule book, myself, i dont feel any true harm has been done by repeated exposure, so I was wondering what others might think.
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    Re: DMT safe or dangerous ?

    Sun, October 22, 2006 - 11:48 PM
    I believe that MAOI used with ayahuasca can be very dangerous but smoking the spice itself, I don't know but I have been looking for information either way on it. One thing which has me worried is Rick Strassman's last interview on the Coast to Coast AM Radio Talk Show, he appeared to be having some kind of mini siezures with his ability to speak clearly. Now, it may have had absolutely nothing to do with DMT, he publically states that he does not smoke it but I have heard him get upset with another radio interviewer he let it out over the air that in private communication Rick had acknowledged having done so.

    Makes me worry...
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      Re: DMT safe or dangerous ?

      Mon, October 23, 2006 - 12:19 AM
      "I believe that MAOI used with ayahuasca can be very dangerous "

      can be if your an imbicile... if your not you have nothign to worry about at all....
      just liek with any medicine.
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        Re: DMT safe or dangerous ?

        Mon, October 23, 2006 - 2:52 AM
        Christ you like to crap on people. No, not really. MAOI's can be very dangerous to people regardless of following the general food guideliness or not, as happened to me when I nearly died from a bad interact with something that was not even on the list of foods not to eat at the time and is not on very many of them now.

        Didn't I just have you do this same thing in another thread here on tribes on the same subject? Why do you persist on making judgments like this? It nearly killed me and I am not your imbicile am I?
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          Re: DMT safe or dangerous ?

          Mon, October 23, 2006 - 3:12 AM
          A story about one of your imbeciles: www.cognitiveliberty.org/dll/a...a.html
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            Re: DMT safe or dangerous ?

            Mon, October 23, 2006 - 11:41 AM
            that woman was very very old and had never taken an entheogen before, her death may have been because of how she related to the experince. it can be quite a shock. the brew could also have had toe in it which can be dangerous to work with. but the maoi in the vine is not as dangerous as people think... they give it to children...

            you seem to be confusing once again the maoi list of foods and things that cannot be mixed with pharmacuticle maois with ayahausca. this is all because of dekornes eronous work. the likely hood of you getting a hypertensive crisis because of

            and yes if you are ingnorent ie being an imbicile and you just fool with ayahuasca with out studying you might get your self into trouble.

            could it be that when you drank ayahuasca, thinking or knowing that people say its dangerous and that if you eat certain foods with it it could cause you o have a hypertensive crisis or get really sick, that when the experince got hard which it often does get hard ( very hard) that you may have trciked your self in to beleiveing you were dieing. i have seen this alot with ayahuasca as well as other entheogens. like peoeple who are scared of mushrooms. this happens every year.... they get some wild mushrooms and dont know if they are real or poisonous mushrooms. so they eat them get scared about it and then they turn thier whole trip into thinking that they ate poisonous mushrooms. when in actuality they are maeking themselves feel liek they are going to die due to thier abiltiy to be so open to the power of suggestion when intoxicated by the entheogen.

            people seem to think that ayahausca is dangerous this to me is an ignorent statement.... anything can be dangerous if worked with with out skill or if its worked with with illintiions or no iintention at all...

            by this i mean that there are stupid people who do stupid things. your saying you have never observed this? you have never seen or done a stupid thing? i have! ive been an imbicile quite a few times!

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            Re: DMT safe or dangerous ?

            Mon, October 23, 2006 - 12:04 PM
            << A diabetic, Ms. Maiangowi went off her medication as instructed by the Uyunkars before and during a three-day ceremony in October, 2001. She, along with about 50 other participants, drank copious amounts of a mixture of ayahuasca and nicotine,>>

            just saying... three days off of diabetic medication coupled with 'copious amounts' of nicotine?

            can you spell myocardial infarction?
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              Re: DMT safe or dangerous ?

              Mon, October 23, 2006 - 2:04 PM
              yeah it doesnt sound like it was the ayahuascas pharmacological effects at all.
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                Re: DMT safe or dangerous ?

                Mon, October 23, 2006 - 3:29 PM
                Was that native woman an imbecile as you claim the only people who have problems from the use of MAOI's are??

                She listened to an ayahuasca shaman who was well versed in its effects and still died because of his advice. I just wanted to show you that it is not as strait forward as you might say, that only an imbecile has problems using MAOI. In her case it was not the MAOI itself, but probably due to advice from someone who was not medically trained to stop her meds in order to take another med, an MAOI.

                As far as MAOI's themselves go they can only be legally prescribed by a doctor who medically monitors their reaction to it. Your advice in this thread is tantamount to practicing medicine without a license and you could easily be held liable for anyone taking your out of hand statements as the truth.

                This is way off topic now, I realize that but Little one, you seem to pretend to be so above it all in your own blog and then go around calling people imbeciles in other threads, it doesn't add up.
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                  Re: DMT safe or dangerous ?

                  Mon, October 23, 2006 - 5:20 PM
                  chill out I AM.
                  jeez...
                  your being a bit reactionary and takeing this way to personal. i was not calling you an imbicile. i was stateing that people that dont do thier home work are negligent thus being stupid. very stupid in fact, so stupid that they could end up takeing thier own life accidentaly.

                  do you have evidence that she died due to problems with an MAOI? no your makeing an assumption.

                  "As far as MAOI's themselves go they can only be legally prescribed by a doctor who medically monitors their reaction to it."

                  harmine and harmaline are nothing like the long term maois perscribed by doctors... you need to get your facts straight and calm down a bit. you are confuseing long term pharmacuticle maois with short term maois like harmine and hamaline. they have differant effects in the body and the short term ones are much more benign with much much less adverse side effects and needed percautions. not hat you dont need to be cautious, which i never impleid that you didnt thus the need for homework and care. if you have preexisting health problems like your allready hypertensive then maybe you should talk to your doctor. if your on psychoactive meds like an ssri or a long acting maoi mayeb you shoudl talk to your doctor and you shoudl tell the ayahauscero your working with ( assumeing you are) about any health concerns or wether your on any medications. normaly you dont eat anything for about 4 hours prior to drinking ayahuasca and you dont eat until the next day and you stay on a deita for a few days. this has nothing to do with MAOIs and should not beconfused with the considerations that you shoudl take with a long term maoi. this is how its done. every curndero i have worked and studied with do it this way and think the confusion with other long acting persciption maois is rediculous. i have studied with a curendero for 6 years this is what i have learned from him...
                  if your not going to study up on how its to be done safely and correctly and traditionaly then yes your takeing your life into your own hands. i didnt say it was not dangerous i siad that it was dangerous if your an imbicile and not being cautious that goes for any medicine does it not?
                  in the case of the elder who died it was a sad story. we only know she died during the ceremony. we dont know if she died becaase the ayahausca killed her. people have been doing this medicine for thousands of years... as a medicine... not a poison.

                  "Your advice in this thread is tantamount to practicing medicine without a license and you could easily be held liable for anyone taking your out of hand statements as the truth. "

                  if you want to debate this further why dont you bring it up with some of the people on the ayahuasca forum some of which are medical doctors ( the source of alot of my information having been a mod there for years). if you dont want to beleive me fine you dont have to. im not asking any one to beleive me at all. i pretty much expect that you dont have a lazy mind and that you will look at other sources besides what any one person says especialy me. if you dont do this its not my fault. buyer beware. im not liable, who ever doesnt do thier home work is. buyer beware.

                  "This is way off topic now, I realize that but Little one, you seem to pretend to be so above it all in your own blog and then go around calling people imbeciles in other threads, it doesn't add up."

                  dude people are imbiciles some times. (i wasnt calling any one in particular and imbicile especialy you) i am an imbicile some times. i dont pretend shit. i am a bad person... i am comfortable with that...lol because there is nothing wrong with that...lol

                  seriously in all do respect if you want to continue discussing this with me i really dont care to go and bring it up on the ayahuasca forum. ask some questions about this from a number of people who really know what they are talking about. tell them about your perrsonal experince, bring up the old lady who died ask questions about that.
                  forums.ayahuasca.com/

                  doctorcito on that forum is a wonderfull guy to talk to on this subject and he is the mod for the science section there is also a health and healing section for you to voice your concerns. if you want to talk about this subject with some experts go there if you dont buy what i am saying... no sweat of my back good for you! your a critical thinker.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
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                    Re: DMT safe or dangerous ?

                    Mon, October 23, 2006 - 5:29 PM
                    here is a great link to an ongoing discussion on the topic...
                    forums.ayahuasca.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php
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                      Re: DMT safe or dangerous ?

                      Mon, October 23, 2006 - 7:09 PM
                      "chill out I AM. jeez... your being a bit reactionary and takeing this way to personal"

                      That lady who died was a relative of mine, I don't like her being referred to as an imbecile because some shaman like yourself, probably, thought he knew all of the answers.
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                        Re: DMT safe or dangerous ?

                        Mon, October 23, 2006 - 7:21 PM
                        i was not reffering to her as an imbicile either.
                        i can see why your takeing this so personaly.. but still i am not the shaman that gave her la purga.
                        and i never said i had all the answers because i dont. thats why i directed you to the forum so you could educate your self on the subject more.
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                          Re: DMT safe or dangerous ?

                          Mon, October 23, 2006 - 7:26 PM
                          Ok, I agree... it was not fair of me to wait this long to give you the whole story, but that same MAOI caused me a great deal of trouble too. I should have know better but I was convinced it was just the way she had temporarily stopped taking her meds. In my case, it was a rare reaction which caused me years of disability but I am completely recovered now.
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                            Re: DMT safe or dangerous ?

                            Mon, October 23, 2006 - 7:41 PM
                            what kind of disability?

                            you know it was an ecudorian shaman right?
                            some shamans put Toe in thier brew, which is the same is datura. its called angle trumpet or brumansia and that can cause some complications in people some times in a pretty big way.
                            but people rearly die from just plain old caapi. now did you have the same brew?
                            toe can be pretty dangerous to work with causeing brain lessions and finaly stroke.
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                              Re: DMT safe or dangerous ?

                              Mon, October 23, 2006 - 7:52 PM
                              The main problem for her was a mix of MAOI and nicotine together which can cause bad reactions for people who are non-smokers and unaccustomed to having in in their systems. Why they insisted on using both nicotine and MAOI together for people who do not even normally use nicotine was insanity to me. That stuff is poisen, because of that I get miffed when I see people so flippantly excuse MAOI's as safe when they are not always so.

                              For me, the MAOI caused me to be unable to sleep more than an hour and a half or so a night for months, then maybe 3 to four hours a night for over a year, up to six hours a night for a couple of more years and now I am finally able to sleep a full eight hours a night, taking me five years to get back to normal. I also had a terrible restless leg twitch in my right leg only which would not go away for years but that is not why I could not sleep, I just was never sleepy. I had twitching in my left hand which took years to go away too. I could not focus correctly upon anything for months afterwards either. Also, I had a loud ringing in my ears which finally has subsided to where it is so low I do not notice it much now but all of this happened to me after using MAOI to potentiate ayahuasca.
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                                Re: DMT safe or dangerous ?

                                Mon, October 23, 2006 - 8:24 PM
                                the maoi is not going to potentiate the nicotine. nicotine acts as an maoi any way.

                                " A diabetic, Ms. Maiangowi went off her medication as instructed by the Uyunkars before and during a three-day ceremony in October, 2001. She, along with about 50 other participants, drank copious amounts of a mixture of ayahuasca and nicotine, designed to induce vomiting. Some participants agreed to receive enemas."

                                these guys should never have instructed her to stop takeing her medication for one it probably weekend her for a few days before takeing it... would a ecuadorian shaman really know enough about western medicne to recomend that? no.

                                "According to the agreed statement of facts, the ceremonies were not medically supervised."

                                there was a diabetic who was at one of our ceremonies once and he said that because he was afriad he might go into diabetic shock he had a freind sit with him who did not drink and had a needle ready for him with insulin.
                                not every one is irresponsible who does this work...

                                "On the third night of the ceremony in October, 2001, Mrs. Maiangowi died of nicotine poisoning."
                                "An autopsy concluded she died of acute nicotine poisoning."

                                this says right here she died of nicotine poisoning for which i am sorry. i remember when this happened and posted alot about it as well as about precautions when it happen.
                                i have to say though this does not say she died because of a complication with a maoi it says she died of nicotine poison. for people who are acclimated to working with tobacco in this way its hard to work with but its very powerfull and cleaning and a part of the tradition. but for those who are not its such a shock to the system that it could be fatal for a 71 year old woman who has been weekend from fasting and not takeing her diabetic medication.

                                i have to add also that the shuar of a totaly differant tradition then the one i work in...

                                " It was the third consecutive night that Maiangowi and about 50 other participants drank the solution. The healers had told them to spend their days resting, to eat as little as possible and to drink only water.

                                Her family said afterwards that some community members pressed the woman and her husband to return for the second and third nights of the ceremony although she had felt ill after the first two segments."

                                she was fasting and doing this for three days as a 71 year old diabetic! that might be fine for a shar woman of 71 but for a woman who is diabetic who has never done this no way...

                                if she felt ill and she was pressured to do so people lacked wisdom in that situation. just like in the sweat lodge if its makeing you feel sick maybe you should stop. if not you could die. a sweat lodge has killed quite a few people who have not taken care. there was a group in austrailia who died from too hot of a sweat and not takeing care or knowing what they were doing... but are we to say that the sweat lodge is dangerous or deadly? well maybe but i am more inclind to say that people are deadly in thier neglagence.

                                "To me everyone screwed up here - the Canadian government (who allowed the healers to enter the country), the local health centre, the people who were at the ceremony," said Trudeau. Participants were not even asked about their medical histories and current treatments, she added. "

                                i couldnt have said it better myself... it really sounded like the clashing of two cultural traditions... water and oil...


                                "For me, the MAOI caused me to be unable to sleep more than an hour and a half or so a night for months, then maybe 3 to four hours a night for over a year, up to six hours a night for a couple of more years and now I am finally able to sleep a full eight hours a night, taking me five years to get back to normal. I also had a terrible restless leg twitch in my right leg only which would not go away for years but that is not why I could not sleep, I just was never sleepy. I had twitching in my left hand which took years to go away too. I could not focus correctly upon anything for months afterwards either. Also, I had a loud ringing in my ears which finally has subsided to where it is so low I do not notice it much now but all of this happened to me after using MAOI to potentiate ayahuasca."



                                now the likely hood that your symptoms were caused by the ayahausca over such a long period of time is highly unlikely. at least pharmacologicaly... but i wouldnt not say that it could have been because of spiritual illness... maybe dano... is there much witchcraft that goes on in your tribe?
                                i tell yah what. go to the ayahausca forum tell your story and talk to doctorcito. he might help you figure out what it was or wasnt that caused your problem. but from what i know it doesnt sound like what happened to you was the side effect of harmine or hamaline...
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                                  Re: DMT safe or dangerous ?

                                  Mon, October 23, 2006 - 8:26 PM
                                  i honestly think you should bring this subject up on the ayahuasca tribe as well as the ayahuasca forum. we had discussed it alot on the ayahausca forum when it happened but we didnt get any feed back from people that where there.

                                  i do want to say though I AM that i have reffereanced this situation quite a bit as a warning to people to be carefull in doing the work...

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