Smoking DMT and Christianity

topic posted Thu, June 9, 2011 - 12:07 AM by  Eric
Does anyone here have Christian beliefs and smoke DMT? I'm entirely intruiged by the thought of trying DMT, but I'm unsure as to whether or not it's hypocritical. My intentions are completely spiritual based, I'm just not sure if I'd meeting the Devil on the other side posing as some harmonious creature deceptively like described in others DMT experiences.
posted by:
San Diego
  • its not hypocritical, but it may be 'jarring' to some christians, to realize the Light, and The One, is not external to themselves~ but indeed IS themselves, not an external force. it would certainly expand your definition of god and light. the problem is, you see the Light direct - not thru god - you see it directly, just as god also does. It sounds semantical, but its an important point of perceptual awareness and understanding.
      !In other words, you might end up discovering the truth, that Xtinanity is a complete sham!
      • what's ironic is although the CHURCH seems to have the wrong perspective, what I learned spiritually has helped have incredible psychedelic breakthroughs and have changed meanings since. It's like having two people stare at the same inkblot and seeing two different things depending on their life experience. While I understand your sentiment I would like to remind you that one big reason it's difficult having Christians try these things is because they aren't always made to feel welcome. The same way you probably see them. crucify thy ego ;)
        • The fundamental insight I glean when cruising deep into spice-space, shrooms-ville, lysergia-land.... etc is the EVERYTHING is DIVINE! The Earth is divine, I am divine... The Universe is Divine ... All is One One is All, As Above so Below... Do what thou WILT! Pretty much in direct contradiction to any version of XianInanity I have ever encountered (Possible exceptions with qualification include Meister Eckhart, G Bruno, St. John of the Cross -old school Xtian Mystics... OTOH, had they not been Xtians they would have been burnt at the stake... Er, my bad, they did burn Bruno... WTF! and Eckhart was excommunicated, St. John was imprisoned and tortured/starved)- So, I don't see any good reason to espouse any particular dogma or force others into a belief (particularily XtianInanity). What I find most mystifying and very disturbing is that so many people's consciousness is enslaved to one of the three incestuous monotheistic traditions spawned in the desert several thousand years ago, belief in the Bible and Koran and blind faith in some deity (who if you read your Bible, is demonstrably a hideous, brutal monster!).
          You would not believe the number of times I have been someplace minding my own damned business and some Xtian decides it is their duty to "witness" to me and despite my protests and requests to get the fuck out of my face continue a mindless litany of bullshit... Oh My!!!
          • I see your argument and have heard it regurgitated so many times. I agree with most of it. But little things like saying Xtians every time(WE GET IT) and not even attempting to consider a different perspective on it(one outside of a Church's) just tells me me that you aren't looking at things in search of the truth, but rather to project your own anger out at it. It's very transparent, believe it or not. It also shows that you're very insecure with your own beliefs. Don't get me wrong, I can't stand what the Church has done either. And I agree the whole everything is divine idea. However, I also acknowledge the fact that a Church is motivated by money and power. Something that "X" talked a lot against. The whole scenario isn't as cut and dry as your narrow minded view of it is. You don't have to subscribe to the shallow Church point of view to look into or call yourself a Christian. Every religion is based off of people attempting to make sense of this whole thing we're a part of. Also, it's not a Science book. It's a spiritual book. Don't confuse or try to compare the two.

            So in the end, it's great to be critical, but not pretentious. Just please step off the soapbox. Also, nobody cares or is telling you what to believe. Just like nobody really cares about my beliefs. And before condemning Christianity for every atrocity on this Earth, I invite you to at least go and research the beliefs of many people who had major contributions to Science. You'll find that not everybody who claims to be Chri-err sorry- Xtian is a slack jawed half-witted Rush Limbaugh type who is completely close minded to any other thought process. After all, I'm here defending a lot of it and I've opened my mind using every psychedelic you've heard of.

            -end rant
            • "I see your argument and have heard it regurgitated so many times."
              Excuse me... It is not regurgitation, it is simple fact!

              "I agree with most of it."
              Hmm, then why are you playing the Devil's Advocate on behalf of XInanity (or should that be the God's advocate)?

              "But little things like saying Xtians every time(WE GET IT) and not even attempting to consider a different perspective on it(one outside of a Church's) just tells me me that you aren't looking at things in search of the truth"
              Seems rather presumptuous of you to draw any conclusions whatsoever WRT the variety of perspectives I have taken over the years or currently entertain. Seriously, you don't know fucking shit about me!

              "but rather to project your own anger out at it. It's very transparent, believe it or not."
              Anger? ANGER? Don't get me started on the topic of anger when it comes to my reflections on the history of religion.

              "It also shows that you're very insecure with your own beliefs."
              Hmm? I am very secure in my beliefs. I just refuse to walk on eggshells around Xtians.

              "Don't get me wrong, I can't stand what the Church has done either. And I agree the whole everything is divine idea. However, I also acknowledge the fact that a Church is motivated by money and power. Something that "X" talked a lot against...."
              Yeah, well X is dead, get over it!

              "The whole scenario isn't as cut and dry as your narrow minded view of it is."
              Again, you really have NO idea of my point of view, so please don't assume you have any fucking clue about what I believe.
              "You don't have to subscribe to the shallow Church point of view to look into or call yourself a Christian. Every religion is based off of people attempting to make sense of this whole thing we're a part of."

              And stories about Santa Clause, Faeries, Unicorns, Cyclops and whatever other load are similar failed attempts at epistemological and ontological inquiry...
              "Also, it's not a Science book. It's a spiritual book. Don't confuse or try to compare the two."
              DUH!!! It's really not all that 'spiritual' either IMNSHO.

              "So in the end, it's great to be critical, but not pretentious. Just please step off the soapbox."

              "Also, nobody cares or is telling you what to believe. Just like nobody really cares about my beliefs."
              Xtians seem VERY interested in telling everybody exactly what to believe... and when you try to get them to STFU they play the hellfire card...

              "And before condemning Christianity for every atrocity on this Earth"
              I don't blame it for ever atrocity on the earth. But for a religion that espouses 'love and forgiveness" they have sure brought enough hell on earth to last a LONG time and I refuse to forgive that!

              "I invite you to at least go and research the beliefs of many people who had major contributions to Science. You'll find that not everybody who claims to be Chri-err sorry- Xtian is a slack jawed half-witted Rush Limbaugh type who is completely close minded to any other thought process."
              Please name some names... I am sure there are a few I would have a certain amount of respect WRT scientific beliefs. OTOH: Just like there is a supposed separation of Church and State, individuals are not necessarily rational and consistent in their beliefs. Reason/Faith... Never the twain shall meet. There is also the sad tendency for people to walk on egg shells when religion particularly Christianity is being discussed...For some reason people are afraid to attack it (or sheepishly defend it when it is attacked).

              "After all, I'm here defending a lot of it and I've opened my mind using every psychedelic you've heard of. "
              What are you defending? You are not particularly clear on what your own personal perspective is.
              • "Every religion is based off of people attempting to make sense of this whole thing we're a part of."

                That was my only real point. Glad you acknowledged it. Now if you can apply that realization to the real world maybe you wouldn't feel the need to belittle anybody who has another religious view. And yes, I was partly playing devils advocate. I'm just sayin'...don't be "that guy".

                It's also worth mentioning that you need to keep it cool tolerance-wise on these boards as per the guidelines.
          • look you hideous hate filled creep
            what are you talking about?
            the string here is NOT about wether any religion is valid or true, but about how a person who may be to a greater or lesser extent religious, in this case christian (he calles himself christian, there fore i will too, it is resepctful to do so, not xtilian or whatever smart ass stuff u call him.
            the stake burners were rich political players, not spiritual folk. and what are u doing here but burning this uy for searching for some thing other than what he has grown up with? what are you? you are as hideous as the god you slag off.
            back to my point.
            this thread is about dealing with dmt if u r from a religion, NOT about wether god is real, or what YOU think of his religion.
            grow up u hate filled little demon.
            • Dear womble, I agree in essence with your first (extensive) post. I thank you for your efforts. All very well put. I tend to agree that all, well most religions (including Christianity) in essence are "good." Yes, it is (fearful) people in their lust for power who corrupt "the word." As a non practicing (ex-)Catholic, I happen to think of the Ten Commandmands as a pretty effective set of guidelines towards leading a proper and decent life. Too bad not all who preach them manage to put them into actual practical use.

              Couldn't help notice your somewhat hypocritical follow-up statements:

              "wouldnt it hav been best to have been gentle and hoped that the guy had an enlightening experience."
              "look you hideous hate filled creep"
              "grow up u hate filled little demon"

              Care to elaborate? I remind you that personal attacks are not permitted here (see forum intro).
    • well said!
      christains have been "used" so much and often by the powers that be that they get very frightened of anything that really would make them leave home and all they know just as christ actually asked them to do etc.

      i like the simple clarity of how you convey what u say.
  • Unsu...
    I was born and raised Lutheran, went Lutheran school and was pretty much indoctrinated as a Lutheran. After a spiritual crisis due to being gay, I cleansed myself of the teachings and labels of 'Christianity'. I finally came to the conclusion agnostic was more my flavor.

    Fast forward a few years to my discovery of entheogens - specifically, DMT.

    My first 'major' experience induced a state of being which allowed me to look past the dogma and straight to the underlying teachings of Christianity (as well as other faiths). Stories and passages of the bible took on a whole new meaning. Things like the 'light' / 'father' / transfiguration of Christ / etc suddenly made sense in what I can only call universal terms.

    I still cringe when someone tells me they are Christian, only because I was there and understand how difficult it is to get past the dogma. As someone above pointed out there's huge shift in thought when you understand the Light is you, and you don't need to receive it from some external source.

    All in all, I think the DMT experience is the best thing you can do for yourself. You will understand life on a whole new level and redefine your existence. This shift can be difficult, but necessary for those seeking Truth.

    Good luck in your quest.
    • I have tried many psychedelics over the past ten years (shrooms, salvia, even powerful Ecstasy has had some long term effects) but i have never tried DMT. I am a publicly vocal atheist and have always been. I do have friends and family with different beliefs and god and Christianity. After hearing of the powerful effects of DMT and the warnings of not to do it if you are an atheist; I now look back and realize I don't not believe In Christianity, I just am scared to let go of my logic and I deep down want to believe in something i can't begin to understand. I'm scared to put my blind faith in something so powerful that it will get people to look past evidence of certain parts of history (evolution) and believe in these blind truths. So I'm asking everyone who has knowledge of DMT, is it a good idea to do it going in with a skepticism about religion, but a yearning and want to find it???
      • I think the belief in the non-existence of God comes from the inability to conceive what God is or might be. It's like trying to explain to a blind person what colours are.
        A blind person can live without the notion of colours. However, when you say "There is no such thing as colours, because I've never seen them", it is blind faith - you believe in the non-existence of something, your only 'evidence' being your own inability to see it.

        On the other hand, when you see colours and say "Colours exist, because I'm seen them", there is no blind faith in that. You've seen colours, and so have many others... what more evidence do you need? They may be non-existent or meaningless in the blind person's reality, but for you they are very real.

        It's much safer and more scientific to be agnostic and admit "I can't see colours / God, but that doesn't prove anything."

        DMT might just expand your perception and make you see something very profound and divine in yourself and the Universe that you might (or might not) want to call God. It may be very far from your current notion of God, especially if it's the biblical, vengeful old man with a beard. Don't worry, none of it will smash your seemingly logical, scientific worldview into pieces. This God is not inconsistent with science, the theory of evolution, etc. It's independent of science. No destruction, just expansion. It will make you more whole and your expanded worldview will be more logical than your current religion of atheism.
      • Your story and approach sounds similar to mine. It was only through the use of psychedelic that I was able to break free of the dogmas and see it through my own perspective and understanding. I was angry for a very long time because I felt the Catholic church(grew up Catholic) had to be aware and was for some evil reason, hiding it. At the same time, I felt that there were many clues and symbols that took on a whole new meaning after expirimenting. Even the idea of communion, although I still believe the original communion was supposed to be psylocybin mushrooms. So in some weird way, what I learned growing up helped me navigate through the trips. The word Christ is believed to represent higher consciousness and that's the main thing I believe the churches has missed the point on, regardless of whether or not he was a real person. It's reconcilable through these experiences. My family is largely Catholic and I have a weird love-hate relationship with Christianity. Basically, I believe Christians are one psychedelic trip away from getting it right.

        I had tried Lucy and Mushrooms thoroughly before, and they brought me closer to God/Gaia/Universe/Love, whatever you want to call it, but it wasn't until I tried DMT that I was able to finally make peace with the things I saw wrong with it. It's a lot like continuing to have a little bit of hope for a cheating, stealing ex-wife/husband that you once loved and defended dearly. So I'd recommend it to you with the right preparation simply because there is no good reason not to considering what you're seeking.

        Message me if you'd like to go deeper into the conversation. It's good to talk about it for both sides so you don't feel so alone.
      • about a month ago i was given a book about Buddhism. Im born to an aethiest mother and orthodox christian father...needless to say they both have no idea what they are talking about

        Buddhism explains reality in an almost scientific and science fiction kind of way...all things ive heard about DMT experiences almost directly match the descriptions of what happens at death according to Buddhists. when you are able to accept this, you start to see other aspects of existense matching descriptions outlined in Buddhism.

        just a thought. look into it. it has changed my life and i feel amazing the more i learn and apply it to my daily life.
  • What is the opposite of hypocritical? Truthful...? There are other analogues I'm sure. An entheogen such as dmt shows you not only what you are but why you are. Funny things happen when one detaches from the conditioned mind... I'd reckon most if not all religions of the world were inspired by "religious experiences." Be it through the use of entheogens or purely endogenous (possibly catalised by naturally occurring compounds such as dmt). Yep, the opposite of hypocritical I'd say.

    "knowing how the world really works means to have risen outside, above, beyond the dimensions of ordinary space, time, and casuistry, and actually seen the wiring under the board, stepped outside the confines of learned culture and learned and embedded language, into the domain of what Wittgenstein called the unspeakable, the transcendental presense of the other, which can be abstracted, in various ways, to yield systems of knowledge which can be brought back into ordinary social space for the good of the community."

    --Terence McKenna
    taken from Re: Evolution

    This concept scares any dogmatic power structure, religious or political alike.
  • Thank you all for your honest replies. Fortunately enough, my religious views were conceived by my own conscious free will(as free as one can be outside of God) when I was a fully formed functional adult. My worldview was not shaped and nurtured by some forced religious upbringing. There is always tension when bringing up Christianity, even amongst supposed "enlightened" ones and I thank those who responded with maturity and chose to remain abstinent from bias hostility.

    Here is the thing- I have already had un undeniable spiritual experience while not under the influence of any drugs(I have never been diagnosed with any mental illness either.) This happened close to 6 years ago. It was an out of body, one on one encounter with the creator or what some of you describe as the "life force." The love, compassion, and power were overwhelming. I also became completely aware of my own transparency around it. I could neither hide nor wanted to hide any of the secrets, worries, vices that I kept to myself in real life. The Creator let me know that all that I had considered important was meaningless, and despite my selfishness He still loved me. It felt a lot like what many describe as a DMT trip. Than I asked it if any religion coincided with it, and the Lord led me to Jesus. I know it sounds silly, but that's the truth.

    Flash forward to now. Years of bad decisions have piled heaps of regret and self-consciousness in the back of my head. No matter how hard I try or what I do, I can't shake these things. The most enlightening part of my spiritual experience was when I came out of it, all of the baggage I once toted around was gone. I felt like a feather, just floating around and drifting to help others by listening and understanding. Over time the clearheadidness faded and I chose to go back to my old ways. It's killing me. I want a break from my myself. I want to let it go. I want to understand by being reintroduced to my compulsive subconscious thought patterns and than tell them that they are no longer welcome in my head. I'm hoping that DMT can help me with this. My faith is strong, so I doubt the spiritual experience wil destroy it completely. My hope is that it will destroy the incorrect beliefs and help rebuild in truth.
    • "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs." What can I say to a religious sock puppet zealot with multiple personalities....but um...WOOF...and also..spell-check is your friend - maybe your ONLY friend. DMT vs. Lithium must be as great a debate as heaven vs. hell or god vs. the devil. Hmmmm.........
  • I grew up Catholic and have only come to understand it in what feels like the correct way through various substances. I will tell you that what the church says isn't entirely true although I can't blame them too much since the majority of them probably have never had a psychedelic experience. also strongly believe that Christ spoke of and largely represented the psychedelic link.
  • I don't want to offend anyone and I sure don't want to harm someone's fragile ego, but Catholicism is one of the worst (and most false) pagan religions on the planet. It's no coincidence that homosexuals and pedophiles are drawn to the top of the religion. Yes I am fully aware that those and all other harmful predators exist in all religious, and all non-religious sectors of society, but anyone who is unaware that it is RAMPANT in the Catholic and the various Catholic offshoots needs to get away from that Egyptian river - denial.

    As to DMT and Christianity (why are so many people afraid to actually spell that out?) the two have nothing to do with one another in my opinion.
    • oh jesus, get a grip, there are sexual molesters in every damn religion and walk of life, it is not unique to catholicism. im not even defending xistianity or catholicism, but really, religion does not create child molesters. usually its closer to home- mom dad aunt uncle friend of the family. Besides, the church really is dying, so just wait a while, and there will something else to blame it on. its victimization at an early age that makes pedophiles, not religion. But, if one hates the church, one will filter most input to only be aware of the facts that support ones position.

      so, simon, which simon are you???
    • Not sure why people can't spell it out either. It's more of a pretentious thing. DMT isn't supposed to represent any religion. It's beyond religion, and it's made by you. If anything Mushrooms have a closer connection(ignored by the Church). Check out a book called the Sacred Mushroom and the Cross. And yes, I agree with the comment below. Most religions are crumbling so take comfort in that. Also, predators are involved with many more religions. Some of them support it without even hiding it. Also, I'm not pagan, but I'm surprised to see it condemned on a psychedelic forum.
      • "Not sure why people can't spell it out either."
        Because 'Christianity' has NOTHING to do with Christ anymore. Hence XtianInanity!
        • ...The whole time I thought you were referring to any version of it. I understand he may or may not have actually lived, but what was ORIGINALLY personified never seemed like a bad thing to me. Scholars even point out that it was pretty much hijacked not too long after Christ's supposed death because it was easier for the Romans to control people with the idea of just 1 God, or deity.
          • what you say here has a bit more validity than u might realise, "what is personnified" is what is known in "church" circles as "the holy spirit".

            tho in south american native belief, the "who" that is met during the mushroom trip is the holy spirit. and both are right.
        • ha, i get your drift here. i use three words: christianity, churchianity, and christi-anarchy (christi-anarchy ebing for the actual enlightned stage, churchianity being for those dangerous folk who haunt those buildings.
      • well said! the more religion and politics as we kno it die, the better off the whole planet will be.
        dmt break and fragments the whole lot, and mushrooms bring the "sprit" of what it takes, in life.

        i tend to take most books, even ones that inspired, with a pinch of salt. take note of them, but it is only living experience/relationship with life that really does it.
  • Namaste :)
    I believe in Jesus and I don't at all believe "Christianity" is anything like a sham.

    Dear friend, God gave us this and other opportunities in nature to experience him. I believe the spirit molecule is God's mark on us, it's our ability to host his presence and love, it's our eternal connection to him and the spiritual realm. During my experience with DMT, I felt connected, overwhelmed, and consumed by God's love.

    My experience is not proof of anything. But my conscience is clear on a morality level.

    I hope you allow yourself to become part of the family!

    Boundless Love!
    • nice way to put things buddy.
      tho "gods mark" is a totally symbolical thing and not really a good idea to say his or that is gods mark.
      the mark is something only god sees (wether god is a "ting" in you or the supernatural "thing" that some other say "it" is.
      but nice words .
      • I doubt God is limited to a gender at all, how could all encompassing God only be one or the other? It's impossible to give physical categorization to divinity, but we try to do it for the sake of our limited human consciousnesses. When I feel the presence it is a masculine, fatherly power I feel, so I will call Him, "He".
        • Unsu...
          Xtianity in itself isn't bad. I guess it's about whether one pursues miracles or his teachings. Often in painting Christ's taking on of sin we gather the idea that that powered the miracles, and that might cause a type of addiction to get formed. In fact sin being for the most part deemed either openly or implicitly as sexual mostly (remember that Jesus, and his catholic priests, were made to be celibate, a sexual quality of course) in itself declares that one desires miracles, as sexual accusation of others may in fact be how Jesus was caused to be celibate. Many believers these days believe more in sin and evil and hell than they do in the promise or goodness of the god Jesus might have worshipped, and this, especially due to how Jesus' sacrifice was to end this bickering over sin once and forever, puts them in a bad position. Perhaps even one could say that many at heart declare themselves gods over other people, and here we could reference Flint's proposition that we indeed evolved from monkeys, and much else besides. So this opens up many important questions, it seems.
          • Unsu...
            Also, people who take "drugs" don't insist they themselves then have the power to walk on water or heal people, this would of course be ridiculous, but perceptually reality at least in their perception of it does change, but those who believe in sin forever do in some way it seems desire reality to include impossibilities such as miracles, instead of being rational and scientific. One might even go so far as to say that some forms of belief stand in the way of further scientific advance, in that they insist at this late hour on needing ever more outlandish events to occur that the main body of humanity finds absurd.
  • hi peter. i just joined but dont kno how to reply to posts yet on here so thot i would reply to your dmt and christianity post here.
    i was very disapointed by the ignorance of many of the replies, that were very imature.
    some tired, and almost conveyed something of the essence of the matter but all fell short.

    is it hypocritical to do dmt? why shud it be? no reason why unless u go around telling others not to, yet you do yourself. a hypocrit is one who for eg tells other not to do something but they do it hemselves. just dont do that. try some, and either remain quiet wen tit is mentioned, or be honest. just be discerning of the situation. even christ was sensitive when and wen not to talk of certain things.
    as for the guy saying all is one all is devine. well, he isnt wrong as the world GOD created is devine and all in it is. what did god say when his creation was made? well at the end of each day he saw it was good, but on the day he completed it, day 6, he said it was VERY good. but like many folk who are confuse between theism and atheism he tends to not realise he is just as zealous and fanatical and fundamental as the folk he thinks he attacks. he cant see that the spirit he attacks goes beyond what "group" u r in. he sees a christian who is
    now back to dmt.

    treat i as a sacrement, pray, ask the lord to giude you, ask the lord to quieten your "ego", ask the lord to help you not force any type of concept into the experience ("be ye not pressumptious in my sight").

    the guy explaining about the light, well, he wasnt far off it, he said that even god watches the light, well, thats partly true, but it is gods light. maybe the context here would be in revelations. the revelator, traditionally we call him john, sees "one like unto the son of man" and john falls n his face, the one like the son of man tells him to stand as he is only a servant just like him. remember god says we shall all be heirs, co-princess, a flat hierarchy. so in gods "world" there is no rich, no poor, no male, no female, no slave, we all seve and are served. in a way, christ is us wen we are perfect, so in a sense you are god, if not, then christ is a lier, and i kno he is not.

    and as for the so called "entities" that appear to express themselves? well dont worry. as u hav prayed b4 the "trip" just trust in the lord, besides mainly these entities will be welcoming and you will only understand what it is yours to understand.

    during the experience it can be likened to: god isnt the ghoslty supernatural spirit in the sense many churches tell us. it is more simple yet more subtle than that. in the biblical sense spirits (hebrew: sphrth or seferot) means spheres/qualities, and in that context there are the spirits of god, or spheres/qualities of god. ok?

    we have human words for ASPECTS of thee spirits (qualities) new testament is so clear in this matter:
    god =mercy
    and so on, all QUALITIES, nothing remotly religious about these qualities, any person can live in those qwualites, and as god said "whoever has love has god". soas the trip "deprograms" us we realise that christ told the truth wen he sed "in that day many will come b4 me and say did we not hl in your name? and i will say go away u evil doer". in other words its not bout being in this or that church, or indeed any church, it is the heart god sees, the qualities within. love, grace, splendour, mercy, peace etc. u get wot am saying?

    remember, christ wasnt a christian. there were no strict rules about drugs/alcohol for him. moderation was the key. tho with dmt it is right to take enuf to be fully intoxicated. and remeber too that most of what we call christianity is just churchianity. u only need to hear what "they" say thru tv and politicians to kno they are way off target. attacking weak people and things that dont bring peace or grace. and grace. it is all by grace. and gods grace will extend to psychedelix taken with reverence to him.

    when u decide the time is right, spend most of the day in prayer. try not to find an answer, that is, when u pray b4 the trip, dont ask for any clarity on a particulat thing, just ask the lord to guide and carry you, and empty your mind to recive that which is for you.

    praise his name. and kno that it will to an extent deprogram you from most politics. they will seem weak after your trip. best way to descibe is enlightened anarchy, spiritual anarchy, or chisti-anarchy. wen i say anarchy, i dont mean the abuse of the word they use on tv news, i mean what the word means (we shall all be co-heirs) it mean no archy, no top down structure.

    and on your way back from the experience praise god , thank him. know he is bigger, and beyond labels, both and neither male nor female. even the ones the church give him. and kno to that many names that other religions use aren't dirty. (rev: on his garment are written many names, but his true name NO MAN HAS UNDERSTOOD)
    kno that he is both and beyond mother and father. and lastly, wen u hav "seen" that god is bigger than, and not a church member as such, lol, be gracefu to those within churh who hav not seen. tak care who you tak to it about, for there are many in church who will attack you, forgive them, they kno not wot they do. only talk to it about understanding folk. christ would hav. many things he only said in certain prescences. ok?

    it is also true u will gain a sympathy for the so called natural "religions", that is to say u wont feel as frightened about or as negative to lets say native american beleifs, and will hav a more gentle way with such, or the rain forrest people etc. they are simply lving or trying to live on gods earth, and not this world which is eveil with its banks, corporates, wars, etc.

    pray, and enter in clear conscience. and if your conscioece dosnt condem u then neither does christ.
    wether u do or dont do dmt, just open to gods bigness, and grace. dont get stuck in doctrines and politics. love gods earth, but hate "the world". with love, your friend paul

    • Very very well put. You summed it up in a way that has made more and more sense to me as I've continued on with these psychedelic adventures. You're very correct about asking whatever your respective view of a good and higher power is to guide and protect you. This is part of the intention/set/setting. Very crucial!
    • You sir have hit the nail right on the head, though I see it is also One speaking through you.

      I personally was raised an Atheist, and was dissuaded from following my Jewish heritage most of my life. I tried mushrooms for the first time 2.5 years ago, and begun delving into Eastern Philosophy and Spirituality. Christianity then came into my life a year and a half after that point, and has become my main focus in life. Before accepting Christ as my Lord and Saviour, I had done DMT ~42 times (13 "breakthroughs" and 29 sub-50mg trips), with varying results, most of which were incredibly positive, and enlightening. Since accepting Christ, I have done DMT twice; once in combination with Opium (I listened to a Greek Orthodox Hymn to the Theotokos, and was in a multicoloured room with a bright white and blue cross gleaming from the centre), the second, and most recent time, was just straight DMT from a Meth Pipe, and was the most profound trip to date. I was forced to close my eyes, and was instantly transported into these golden clouds, a massive Emerald Four Leaf Clover was coming towards me, then opened up from the inside, once it had passed, the number "131" spiraled towards me, solid gold with Rubies gilding the edges, as this gold numbering passed me, I then saw the Lord Jesus Christ, with the choirs of heaven singing praise, but I only was able to view Him for a short period before my sight was overtaken by white light.

      Though I have yet to be baptised, and am only starting out on this path, I can tell you this; DMT when used properly, can be another manner in which to commune with the Godhead. When I saw Jesus in my last trip, it wasn't condemnatory, nor judging, it was a pure, and unconditional love, with a feeling that could be described as "coming home again"

      Hopefully your experiences, since this thread was created, have been a reflection of God's unconditional love for you.
  • Hello Peter,

    Before you try DMT I deeply suggest you read a book called: Gnostic Visions - by a guy named : Luke A. Myers.

    You can buy the book online. He talked about how early Christians actually had visions and in his book he talks a great deal about early christian visionary experiences as well as DMT in plants found in the middle east. I think it would really interest you and help you in your spiritual search. I learned a great deal about DMT in his book, and found the book to be really amazing. I am also a christian and reading it showed me so much about early christian history that I never knew before. I have to say it is really a good ground breaking book.
  • If you are a Christian and you are worried about who you may be dealing with on the other side; remember you can command them (with the authority of Christ) to show themselves as they truly are. Your intentions don't change the fact that you'll be putting yourself in a fairly vulnerable spot (spiritually). Remember that the Great Deceiver knows the hearts of men. He is a master of human psychology and can sense the differing frequencies of your thought vibrations; he knows when his lies are working and when to try a different tactic.

    If you feel like your getting stuck in a bad place, try to find some humor in the weirdness and laugh as hard as you can!

    If you think the "thought vibration" thing is stupid, look up Masaru Emoto. He does experiments with water droplets and how the shape of frozen molecules are more aesthetically pleasing when a word like "love" is written on the outside of the jar (before freezing). The droplets are ugly and unformed when a word like "death" is written on the jar. Crazy!

    Always trust your gut and Good luck!
    • Alright thanks to all for your various responses. I tried DMT. I will try to give a brief explanation of the experience without drawing any conclusions.

      The moment I inhaled the DMT the taste was awful as can be. My friend later let me know that this was due to the impurities not being fully extracted. The lense of my vision became overwhelmed with geometric patterns and fluorescent green glow the permeated everything. I heard the voice of Christ whispering faintly in my Spirit something along the lines of "this is wrong." Next thing I know I was in a realm of darkness surrounded by dark figures who were even darker than the darkness. There was a faint outline of white so I could make out their shapes and movements. Every one of them was focused on me trying to draw near but they couldn't come close. Above and around me there was a cross that seemed to extend into the Heavens. The cross was white I knew subconsciously that this was the mark of God over me, and the protection from invading spirits. I fell into a deep transe of repentance and sorrow. Slowly I faded back into this earthly reality. My friend asked me if I wanted more. I just smiled and shook my head. No thanks.

      I should have known. DMT is just another form of witchcraft. This is a warning for Christians that are curious about dabbling with it. Also, my experience opened a door that has been hard to close. Spirits have been following me, and I had these increased thoughts of trying it again. I urge all who have faith in Christ not to indulge this temptation.
      • C11
        offline 2
        " Meeting the Devil on the other side"

        First off, with that fear you could create a bad trip. Realize your mind has much more power to create the world around you and the trip. I respect your goal towards divinity by having to practice some kind of organized religion in hopes of reaching that. However you are not any less holly then any entity you praise. We are a web and all connected to that pure light aka "god" and what people call the devil is the fear we create. Fear of not getting into "heaven" fear of not being good enough. Just simple fear. Perception really is key. I feel the devil could have been made up to make a good story or to cast fear to control people to think they must fallow certain rules. Im not saying your religion is bad or my point of view is any better. I just want to help you liberate yourself from any fear or point of view you could be stuck in and that's why you're not sure if it would be hypocritical. It is not hypocritical to try to activate what we already have in our brain so we can remember and feel our higher consciousness. When you take it and you just go in with love and a smile and just surrender to the light or whatever. You will understand. Our bodies are just a vehicle we drive. Your soul is a part of everything and any visions you see could be implanted to your past lives or just there. It's still a mystery to me but I understand myself and a lot of ancient stuff after I did it and got more involved with what I saw. Such as the sacred geometry patterns and reading the meaning of the things I saw like you would with dreams and a dream dictionary. It could be different for you. Also just to let you know. I grew up for a while in a Catholic Church as a child but it always freaked me out how much despair I would witness. My mother even tried Christianity however I never felt what everyone felt. yet I always felt connected to a higher power. I've had more then one trip where I came across a entity. He was in all white almost as if it was white light shaped into a man that kind of resembled Jesus or some holy wizard. I guess some would call it a guardian angel or god but this entity just hugged me with his lights and reminded me he's always there protecting me and his love in infinite. It was the most love I ever felt. I am open to religion if it makes you a better person go for it but I've always just been spiritual and curious about how things are all connected instead of separated. I recommend going in there with love in your heart and a open mind. Just smile and breath deeply and relax. Embrace the cosmic love. <3 Love is positive, fear is negative light. We all have a shadow so don't fear anything that may not seem holly because it's all just a part of a transformation. There's always light at the end or just light in the trips. Love.
      • eric,
        what if...
        and this is a hard thing to do half way... so, I will just say, what if...
        what if your cross was a shield, almost like a dome over your perception...
        and if you were to remove it, all the darkness would be revealed? to be.... not the evil shadows your cross had painted them to be..
        but, actually beautiful luminescent entities that were only trying to communicate with you?

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