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Egyptians, Afterlife, the Pineal Gland and DMT

topic posted Mon, January 8, 2007 - 12:03 AM by  Unsubscribed
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Egyptians, Afterlife, the Pineal Gland and DMT

"Did the ancient Egyptian technology extend into mastery of the afterlife? In the Valley of the Kings, the tombs of Seti I and Tuthmosis III have been closed to the public for over a decade. Arcane funerary texts cover the walls of the tombs with a bewildering list of spells and secrets that allow the deceased to navigate the afterlife. Dr. Rick Strassman, author of "DMT: The Spirit Molecule" discusses the biochemistry of the death experience and the role of the mysterious pineal gland. Our powerful interaction with DMT is shedding new light on the ancient understanding of the "third eye" or pineal gland as the seat of consciousness. Lon Milo Duquette discusses the strange state of consciousness known as Lucid Dreaming and its unexpected relationship with the afterlife experience."

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  • om
    om
    offline 51
    They've known about this stuff,
    about the secrets of Creation, DNA, DMT, etc.
    for millions of years in India, at least.
    Egyptians got their ideas of reincarnation
    from travelling Hindu mystics.
    One of the Great Pyramids of Egypt
    has the ancient Indian text "The Bhagavad Gita"
    carved into the inner rock wall of one of the Pyramid chambers.
    The engraving is said to date back many thousands of years.
    The egyptians got their practice of soaking Blue Lotus flowers in wine
    from India, the Lotus flower originates in India was a key ingredient in
    many alchemical elixirs, as well as many ancient legends and Hindu spirituality.
    Pharaohs were ancient Brahmins (India's ruling class )that fled India.
    Theres a lot more info out there than I could post here that shows Egypt's
    Indian origins.
    I guess the point im trying to make is that any spiritual knowledge worth knowing
    that came out of Egypt, has its source in India, so one should seek there for the answers,
    or rather, for the questions.
    Om
    • Ok, so I don't want to be the guy who just immediiately always dismisses everybody else (which is what I'm tempted to do here), but since I don't want to be pushy, which I may sometimes be perceived as (or may actually be) I will try to be as open to all arguments as possible. However, it is my hope that in this conversation that others will do likewise and will be willing to both pressent and listen to different sides of the story and points of view, and pieces of evidence. I am more than willing to listen, but please do the same courtesy for me.

      I'll start with Om's comments:

      My initial comment (and perhaps the most relevant one) is regarding a dating issue. The Vedic Aryans do not appear to have come into India (with their brahmin priests) until about 1500 BCE. The Pyramids are agreed to have been built around 2600 BCE (even by John Anthony West, whose video is linked to below). As far as I can tell, the Greeks (having already gained control of Egypt) were among the earliest to develop trade-relations with India (but this was not until after the collapse of natively-ruled Egypt, long after their beliefs had been established. Also, the Egyptian belief in death and resurrection dates to an era when the Egyptians were rather isolated in their own insular bubble (due to their location) and knew very few outside lands. Their afterlife beliefs, in fact, bear little resemblance that I can recognize to Hindu ideas. There is NO reincarnation in Egypt, for one thing.
      Another dating issue, would be a question of mine, asking what your indication is that people in India have known about DMT, DNA, etc. for "millions of years". Could you site some evidence, please?
      Likewise, the Bhagavad Gita, does not appear likely to have been around until the Late Period of Egypt, when there would no longer have been pyramids being built. And, even if the Bhagavad Gita (and the Mahabharata that it is contained in) relate to actual historical events, these events were even almost surely after the time of Egyptian pyramid bulding.
      I can't make a whole lot of comments on your indication of techniques in utilizing the blue lotus, but I will say that they definitely used it in various ways long before it appears there would have been contact with India, and the lotus flower, IS, in fact local to Egypt. (from wikipedia): "The Egyptian lotuses are also not related to the species of Indian lotus of genus Nelumbo, which are used in Asian cooking and sacred to Hinduism and Buddhism." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_lotus

      As, I said, I am skeptical but open. If you can provide COMPELLING indication that Egypt's traditions and knowledge come from India please do so, but your dating, as I currently understand it, does not corroborate with the available evidence (that I have been thus far presented with).

      Now, on to John Anthony West and his treatment of the Egyptians in his Magical Egypt video (which I have been aware of for a while). West, actually, is one of the most reasonable of his ilk (of whom I find Graham Hancock, Zechariah Sitchin, von Danniken, etc. to be unable to make critical assessments of their own positions). John Anthony West will admit that he is wrong if someone convinces him that what he thought is highly improbably or impossible. For instance, one of his major arguments is that the Sphinx is many thousands of years older than it is generally claimed to be (generally, about the same time as the Great Pyramid, which I stated above). He brought in an expert geologist, Robert Schoch, to try and confirm evidence of this, which Schoch did. The mainstream still does not generally except the evidence, but it is a valiant step on West's part, to get a professional geologist who doesn't appear to have his own agenda to corroborate the evidence from an expert point of view. West and Shoch and Graham Hancock, then travelled to a place in Japan where there was claimed to be an underwater structure off the coast that appeared to be manmade, but based on its location would seem to indicate a very ancient origin, beyond what conventional historians would account for. Well, Schoch examined the "monument", but this time determined that everything he saw indicated that this was a naturally occurring feature of the landscape. West readily accepted Schoch's analysis, though he admitted that it was not what he had hoped to find. But, Hancock was a different matter. Despite Schoch's openness and expertise, Hancock conlcuded that Schoch was wrong and that it still must be a manmade structure. This shows me that Hancock believes whatever he wants to believe, whereas West has some idea of criticality and getting things done somewhat accurately.

      That said, I think that many of West's assertions in the video in discussion are poorly developed. I think Lon Milo Duquette is AMAZING, and everything he said is GREAT (and I highly reccomend anything he has written). Strassman, more or less, just talks about his same old DMT stuff. But, West, tries to do a lot of fancy footwork to try and tie all of these worlds together. I was especially disappointed by his trying to lay an image of the human skull over Egyptian images, and his loose connections to Tibetan Buddhism and other things. I am actually going to go watch the video again today, so I can make more specific and pointed comments. I remember most of it, but there are a few details that I think would better help my elaboration on West's fusions that I find disinteresting.

      Please, Please, feel free to post differing viewpoints on this. I am fairly certain that whether my positions are correct or not that the truth of the conglomerated evidence will speak for itself, to each person individually.
      • Unsu...
         
        "I think that many of West's assertions in the video in discussion are poorly developed."

        Interesting post, Kevin. It's good to be skeptical with an open mind.
        The way I see this presentation is that West is basically specualting and hinting to a whole new interpretation of The Egyptian's obsession with death. I found the skull-layer-over-projection a bit far fetched as well, however, I think West seems to point into the right direction and he is on to something. I think it is extremely hard for any scientist, archaeologist or anyone to really KNOW what the Egytpians were all about. It seems that this culture existed on a different state of conssciousness than we are "in" right now. Mostly they are portrayed as a very superstitious people and not in touch with "reality" who built these monuments in order to "prolong" life. West proposess that quite the opposite is the case.
        When we try to explain their "way of life" filtered through our perception and conditioning of existence, the story always becomes distorted, especially in regards to the old mistake of assuming that past civilizations were less evolved and developed as we are now.

        However, there is always "lies" mixed with truth and I give it all the benefit of a doubt as I would not like to throw out the bayby with the bathwater, so to speak.
        I also found it good that Strassmann was in it since many people are not aware of his research ( and I'm certainly not talking about people in this tribe here) and it's good exposure.

        In regrads to Lon Milo Duquett...I liked what he had to say and would like to know more about him. Anything you recommend ?
        • my favorite thing that I've read so far of Lon Milo is "The Chicken Qabalah". It is SO funny that it is sometimes hard to stop laughing enough to clearly think about all of the incredible wisdom and knowledge that is presented there as well. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lon_Milo_Duquette
          • Ok, so I watched the flick again (there's several other episodes of it by the way, just in case you didn't already know - I don't know if they're on google video or not, but the series is called Magical Egypt). As I said I am more impressed with John Anthony West than most of the others of his ilk. But, there are a few points where I would contend with him.

            He talks a lot about the importance of the brain to the Egyptians, but it is was the only major organ that they never cared about and never mentioned much for anything significant and in fact destroyed completely during the embalming process while other organs were preserved. He makes comments about how people pointing to their heads indicates a cerebral nature to the hieroglyph, but the Egyptians actually thought that the heart was the seat of the mind, not the brain (which is interesting in itself, but that's another matter). The heart was the only organ that stayed in the body, because it needed to be in place in the afterlife.
            As I said before, the overlay of the human skull on the hieroglyph is very lame, I think, and the whole concept of trying to link the kundalini to the Egyptians is problematic, especially in the way he goes about it. If you lay an in-scale skull over this hieroglyph it matches and places a dot on the third eye, where their crown has a snake, representing the kundalini. My first thought was, well, pretty much any hat will place the symbol in front at about the third eye, and it just happens to have been a cobra, Wadjet, the protectress of Lower Egypt. It's funny because many of the crowns had vultures too, because that was the protectress of Upper Egypt and the two together were the symbol of the unified land. In the show you could see such a crown several times.
            I don't understand his argument that he can't imagine why they would have developed such elaborate superstitions regarding death if they weren't accurate. I don't see how the elaborateness of a system determines whether it is valid or not. There are many cultures who have elaborate myth systems regarding death (or anything else). He just happened to pick one of them.
            He tries to make a correlation to the Tibetan Book of the Dead in that he says the goal of both is not to be reincarnated. There is one problem with this however. In the Egyptian system you will NEVER be reincarnated. So, it's not even an issue. You either make it into the afterlife or you become non-existent. Those seem to be the only two options.
            I really do think that Lon Milo was the best part of the video, but it is definitely worth watching. I do think that West makes some very reasonable assumptions and when he is reading the hieroglyphs in Thutmose III's tomb his interpretations don't appear to be radical. He is largely pretty straightforward on that, and it is very interesting for that. I have yet to watch much of the rest of the series, but I have them all somewhere. Anyways, anyone else's thoughts who has seen it would be welcome. Those are my immediate reactions.
            • Re: Egyptians, Afterlife, the Pineal Gland and DMT

              Wed, January 10, 2007 - 6:01 AM
              "the Egyptians actually thought that the heart was the seat of the mind, not the brain"

              Interestingly also the Taoists believe this. Recent research indicates that a change in the EM emissions associated with an emotional response occurs first in the heart, then in the brain. Also, the heart's EM emissions by far exceed those of the brain... Recent research also indicates that there is an internal "dialogue" between the heart and the brain, and that some of the brain's responses to outside stimuli are linked and preceeded by a yet unknown process which takes place in the heart. Note: the heart develops before the brain(!). Another subject entirely, other than that it is interesting that both the Egyptians and the Taoists have considered the 'mind' not to be seated in the brain but in the heart long before any 'modern' research could ever took place... My question is how both the ancient Egyptians as well as the ancient Chinese arrived at such a similar notion WRT the seat of the mind?
              • Re: Egyptians, Afterlife, the Pineal Gland and DMT

                Wed, January 10, 2007 - 7:44 AM
                this is pretty amazing, you have any links or references for this????

                buddhism also recognizes the heart as the seat of the mind as well... and im sure many others, like Native American and etc...

                interesting stuff i know has been recorded with organ transplants and people receiving the transplants having sudden weird cravings or interests they didnt before, come to find the person who they belonged to had! sorry, don't have any references for this, just heard about it ;-)
                • Re: Egyptians, Afterlife, the Pineal Gland and DMT

                  Wed, January 10, 2007 - 1:27 PM
                  Brandon, are you talking about references from dimi on the heart studies? or references from me that the Egyptians considered the heart to be the seat of the mind?

                  I was not aware that Buddhism did so as well. I am assuming that these are certain forms of Buddhism and not all Buddhism. Is this correct? Or do all schools of Buddhist thought think this?

                  I would defintely be interested in any links to these scientific studies, though I understand if either of you don't have the links available. I know you don't save a link to every single article you ever read. But, it sounds fascinating and would only be helpful to me.

                  Hmmm....I'm not so impressed by this Muata Ashby character so far. But, I'll have to see some of his evidence. He definitely seems potentially vastly biased, in that he is a Indian Yogic practitioner with an Indian master, but I will admit that this is not a fool-proof reason for being skeptical of him. I'm not very impressed, either, by the organization which he is a part of: The Truth Institution www.truthinstitute.org/default.htm . I am unfamiliar with any of his direct arguments though (which would be what I would want to address), and I am not likely to purchase the $25 video, so unless someone else can elucidate on his thoughts, I am unlikely to be able to use that source.

                  Marvin - I searched through those google results for a while and didn't really find anything meaningful or relevant. Did you? There was, though, one site, which explored this, but again, it is hardly convincing. Listen to the following statement: "The lotus flower, sacred to Buddha and to Osiris, has five petals which symbolizes the four limbs and the head; the five senses; the five digits; and like the pyramid, the four parts of the compass and the zenith." I mean, really, is that what we are going to base our assumptions on. On the fact, that both cultures considered the lotus flower sacred. Beyond that, the Egyptian lotus doesn't even have five petals. It has many more. www.touregypt.net/featurest.../lotus.htm And, though the rest of the stuff on the website is not all as nonsensical as this, much of it is. And, the earliest dated example on the page talks about the Indians influence in Sumeria by the late 7th century BCE, which is quite late. It suggests that the land of Punt, which Hatshepsut dealt with was India, though this is HIGHLY, HIGHLY speculative, and most likely not reasonable, and even under the absolutely hypothetical assumption that Punt was India, Hatshepsut's reign was not until after 1500 BCE. This is all from this site: www.hinduwisdom.info/India_and_Egypt.htm
                  Om, clearly is not going to put any effort into this (and hence basically deserves to be ignored). It is unfortunate, though, as you point out, Ali, that some people will tend to believe it simply because it is said with such an air of authority. I hope this is not what he is banking on; gathering followers, though based om his activities in various tribes it wouldn't surprise me at all.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Egyptians, Afterlife, the Pineal Gland and DMT

                    Wed, January 10, 2007 - 4:01 PM
                    So far after quite a bit of searching I am able to find absolutely ZERO reference to a Vedic scripture in an Egyptian tomb (of any period). Any help on this from those who have heard this is requested.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Egyptians, Afterlife, the Pineal Gland and DMT

                    Thu, January 11, 2007 - 8:33 AM
                    "I was not aware that Buddhism did so as well. I am assuming that these are certain forms of Buddhism and not all Buddhism. Is this correct? Or do all schools of Buddhist thought think this?"

                    I'm assuming you're asking me Kevin?

                    Taoists consider the mind to be seated in the heart.   I'm not a Taoist (though fascinated by it) and I don't have direct links which confirm this statement (simply haven't had time to look it up yet), but I'm fairly certain that this reference is available through texts which you can locate online.

                    The heart related studies I referred to were taken from a recent documentary which focused specifically on heart transplant patients.   Some of the studies and interviewed researchers were associated with the Heartmath Institute of Colorado (I believe).   I've been following their work for a while.   I'm sure they'll pop up in an online search without much effort.  

                    What fascinates me the most is that recent studies, if we can take them as accurate, are confirming what has apparently been 'known' within these mystical schools (of the Egyptians, the Chinese and *perhaps* also by the people of the present general area of Iraq/Iran/India) long before modern medical technology came along.   For one, they considered the brain to be less significant than the heart...  

                    Interestingly, the heart develops first and the brain comes along later, as in, the heart was/is considered as the seat of the soul, back then and now (though debatable)...

                    Cheers,
                    d.
                    • Re: Egyptians, Afterlife, the Pineal Gland and DMT

                      Thu, January 11, 2007 - 8:11 PM
                      Actually I was asking Brandon, who made the comment that Buddhists also considered the heart as the seat of the mind. But, your clarifications were nice as well, especially about the heart transplant thing. I'll check that out.
                      • Re: Egyptians, Afterlife, the Pineal Gland and DMT

                        Thu, January 18, 2007 - 10:00 AM
                        heya, from what i understood, in general all of the indian-sourced systems regard the heart center (charka) as the seat of the mind...

                        their idea of mind though is different than ours, more akin to our idea of what a "soul" is--though most scienctists do not believe in one.


                        and i was indeed asking for link/reference to the heart research, but i will look it up online sometime when i get the chance :)
      • Re: Egyptians, Afterlife, the Pineal Gland and DMT

        Tue, January 9, 2007 - 10:17 PM
        Not trying to harp on you here Kevin, but Vedic scriptures (written on banana and palm leaves date back to over 5000 B.C.E. There had been people living in India for thousands of years before that. Just because the Aryans came later, doesn't mean that the hindu mystics didn't travel to egypt long before then. There is the pieces of Vedic scripture written in the tombs in the Valley of the Dead...that has been known since the 50's or so!

        However, the influence held by these travelling mystics might be a bit overstated. The technology referred to in many egyptian artifacts does lend credence to some form of Indian influence, since many of them mirror technologies written in Vedic scriptures. Remember how Hitler had the Vedas analyzed to devolop the Jet engine?


        Whisper
        • Re: Egyptians, Afterlife, the Pineal Gland and DMT

          Wed, January 10, 2007 - 12:30 AM
          Ok, let's discuss this, then. I'm very open to your suggestions. Sometimes it's hard to do a search for these things on the web and I am unable to find any information about them. Do you have any links you can reccomend on the Vedic scriptures, the 5000 BCE ones, and the ones in the Valley of the Kings, which did not have any tombs in it until about 1500 BCE?
          I am more than open to these suggestions, but am simply unable to find references to them. Regardless, of either of these, the idea of influence on Egypt, especially early on, seems highly questionable.
          Can you give me examples of technologies referred to in Egyptian artifiacts that lend credence to Indian influence?
          I agree that there were people in India (there is no doubt about that). The question is of their influence on Egypt.
          • Re: Egyptians, Afterlife, the Pineal Gland and DMT

            Wed, January 10, 2007 - 6:25 AM
            www.customflix.com/219052

            Relationship between Ancient Egypt & India. I Googled "Indias influence on ancient Egypt".
            • Re: Egyptians, Afterlife, the Pineal Gland and DMT

              Wed, January 10, 2007 - 7:39 AM
              Ahhh Dr. Muata Ashby. His Egyptian Yoga book is rather interesting, though I will say pretty loose and amateur in organization and design. The information is definitely good though, and I havent seen this video so I'd have to see it before making any sort of judgement. I'd be curious to see how he sounds as he comes off rather passionate in his writing.
              • om
                om
                offline 51

                ALL HAIL THE INDIANS!!!

                Wed, January 10, 2007 - 11:11 AM
                The name “Egypt” comes from the Sanskrit word Ajap,
                short for Ajapati, signifying Lord Rama as the scion of the clan
                of Aja; Aja was Lord Rama’s grandfather.
                The Egyptian pharaohs had names like Ramses I, Ramses II, etc.
                because Rama was universally accepted as an ideal ruler.
                Ramses is also another name for Lord Rama, and the word
                has also become synonymous with God, as India’s Lord Rama
                was considered an Enlightened Incarnation.
                In following Ancient India’s tradition, the Egyptians considered
                their rulers to be incarnations of God.
                The Egyptian tradition of dividing society into different castes,
                such as priestly/elite caste, warrior caste, traders, merchants,
                laborers, agriculturists, etc,
                originated in India with Manu, the man who invented the caste system.
                Even the religious symbols on both the shores of the Indian Ganges River
                and Egypt’s Nile River are identical:
                the phallus of Egypt’s Ammon Temple
                is an adulterated duplicate of the Lingam of Shiva Temples,
                the Lingam being Shiva’s man-piece.
                Many ancient stories from India which speak of barren women hanging out
                at Shiva Temples long enough to become fertile again, these similar stories
                are also ascribed to the Ammon Temple of Ancient Egypt.
                The Lotus flower is the symbol of the Sun in both ancient India and Egypt.
                Egyptians viewed Earth represented as a cow, as Indians have for eons,
                and a sphere balanced on the hoods of a huge cobra known as Shesh.
                This is yet another ancient Indian concept, that all of the planets maintain
                their orbits by being held in balance through the power of Lord Sheshanaga,
                or Sheshna, the monstrous serpent which Lord Vishnu uses as a bed.
                The pharaoh’s crown was decorated with a cobra symbol,
                just as Ancient India’s Charka System describes Kundalini as being a super-warehouse
                of cosmic fire that lies coiled like a cobra at the base of the spine, until it awakens,
                triggering every Chakra along the center spinal pathway till it blooms with it’s hood
                open at the crown of an Enlightened Master.
                The name “Nile”, pertaining to the Nile River, the name itself means “blue.”
                Nile is a Sanskrit word which means blue. People still call it “The Blue Nile.”
                They've known all about this stuff,
                about the secrets of Creation, DNA, DMT, etc.
                for millions of years in India, at least.
                Egyptians also got their ideas of reincarnation from traveling Hindu mystics;
                specifically, that an individual, immortal soul
                repeatedly undergoes reincarnation until it reaches liberation.
                One of the Great Pyramids of Egypt
                has the ancient Indian text "The Bhagavad-Gita"
                carved into the inner rock wall of one of the Pyramid chambers.
                The engraving is said to date back many thousands of years.
                The Egyptians got their practice of soaking Blue Lotus flowers in wine from India.
                The Lotus flower originates in India and was a key ingredient in
                many alchemical elixirs,
                as well as the subject of many ancient legends regarding Hindu spirituality.
                The entire Chakra System of Yoga and Tantra,
                which Osirus’s "Third Eye" is referring to,
                was also discovered by Ancient Indians.
                The secrets of The Third Eye, also known as the pineal gland,
                has been a key focus of many mystical Yoga practices
                for millions of years in India.
                Pythagoras, the West's great mathematician and mystic, enrolled himself
                in an Egyptian Mystery School, where they turned him down at the gates
                because they said he must purify himself first, by fasting for 40 days
                and doing a meditation in which you watch your breath and focus on your
                Third Eye, the source of DMT.
                This is a very ancient Indian meditation technique, also explained
                by Krishna to his disciple and friend Arjuna
                in the ancient Indian scripture Bhagavad Gita.
                But the technique FAR predates the Bhagavad Gita.
                Aside from Ancient Egypt,
                the only other civilization that had extensive knowledge
                of such advanced mathematics was Ancient India.
                Evidence now shows that not only did ancient Babylonian geometry
                have it's source in The Shulbasutras (Ancient Indian mathematics texts),
                but Egypt's system of mathematics was also derived from The Shulbasutras.
                The Shulbasutras were created for the purpose
                of designing strict altars for Vedic (Indian) rituals.
                Research has clearly shown
                that in EVERY time period of Ancient Egypt's monuments,
                common trapezoidal Vedic altars can be found.
                A story tells of how Egyptian Civilization goes as far back
                as the time of Lord Parashurama in India.
                The Ancient Indian Scripture Mahabharata explains that
                Parashurama killed all the ruling kings in India
                who were cruel, dishonest, and corrupt;
                those who were against the Vedic culture.
                The Mahabharata further explains
                that the earliest kings of Ancient Egypt
                were originally the miscreant kings and warriors
                who had fled India due to their fear of Lord Parashurama.
                Once they settled in Egypt,
                they started their own perverted, distorted version of India's Vedic culture.
                It was also known that the ancient Egyptians believed
                that their entire civilization originated “across the sea in a land to the East.”
                Go east across the Arabian Sea and you land on the west coast of India.
                There’s a lot more info out there than I feel like posting here
                that shows Egypt's Indian origins.
                The point I’m trying to make
                is that any spiritual knowledge worth knowing
                that came out of Egypt, has its source in India,
                so one should seek there for the answers,
                or rather, for the questions.
                written by Om
                • Unsu...
                   

                  Re: ALL HAIL THE INDIANS!!!

                  Wed, January 10, 2007 - 11:16 AM
                  www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skep....html
                  (a list of fallacious arguments)

                  Argument By Repetition (Argument Ad Nauseam):
                  if you say something often enough, some people will begin to believe it. There are some net.kooks who keeping reposting the same articles to Usenet, presumably in hopes it will have that effect.

                  see OM
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    om
                    om
                    offline 51

                    Re: ALL HAIL THE INDIANS!!!

                    Wed, January 10, 2007 - 12:21 PM
                    The name “Egypt” comes from the Sanskrit word Ajap,
                    short for Ajapati, signifying Lord Rama as the scion of the clan
                    of Aja; Aja was Lord Rama’s grandfather.
                    The Egyptian pharaohs had names like Ramses I, Ramses II, etc.
                    because Rama was universally accepted as an ideal ruler.
                    Ramses is also another name for Lord Rama, and the word
                    has also become synonymous with God, as India’s Lord Rama
                    was considered an Enlightened Incarnation.
                    In following Ancient India’s tradition, the Egyptians considered
                    their rulers to be incarnations of God.
                    The Egyptian tradition of dividing society into different castes,
                    such as priestly/elite caste, warrior caste, traders, merchants,
                    laborers, agriculturists, etc,
                    originated in India with Manu, the man who invented the caste system.
                    Even the religious symbols on both the shores of the Indian Ganges River
                    and Egypt’s Nile River are identical:
                    the phallus of Egypt’s Ammon Temple
                    is an adulterated duplicate of the Lingam of Shiva Temples,
                    the Lingam being Shiva’s man-piece.
                    Many ancient stories from India which speak of barren women hanging out
                    at Shiva Temples long enough to become fertile again, these similar stories
                    are also ascribed to the Ammon Temple of Ancient Egypt.
                    The Lotus flower is the symbol of the Sun in both ancient India and Egypt.
                    Egyptians viewed Earth represented as a cow, as Indians have for eons,
                    and a sphere balanced on the hoods of a huge cobra known as Shesh.
                    This is yet another ancient Indian concept, that all of the planets maintain
                    their orbits by being held in balance through the power of Lord Sheshanaga,
                    or Sheshna, the monstrous serpent which Lord Vishnu uses as a bed.
                    The pharaoh’s crown was decorated with a cobra symbol,
                    just as Ancient India’s Charka System describes Kundalini as being a super-warehouse
                    of cosmic fire that lies coiled like a cobra at the base of the spine, until it awakens,
                    triggering every Chakra along the center spinal pathway till it blooms with it’s hood
                    open at the crown of an Enlightened Master.
                    The name “Nile”, pertaining to the Nile River, the name itself means “blue.”
                    Nile is a Sanskrit word which means blue. People still call it “The Blue Nile.”
                    They've known all about this stuff,
                    about the secrets of Creation, DNA, DMT, etc.
                    for millions of years in India, at least.
                    Egyptians also got their ideas of reincarnation from traveling Hindu mystics;
                    specifically, that an individual, immortal soul
                    repeatedly undergoes reincarnation until it reaches liberation.
                    One of the Great Pyramids of Egypt
                    has the ancient Indian text "The Bhagavad-Gita"
                    carved into the inner rock wall of one of the Pyramid chambers.
                    The engraving is said to date back many thousands of years.
                    The Egyptians got their practice of soaking Blue Lotus flowers in wine from India.
                    The Lotus flower originates in India and was a key ingredient in
                    many alchemical elixirs,
                    as well as the subject of many ancient legends regarding Hindu spirituality.
                    The entire Chakra System of Yoga and Tantra,
                    which Osirus’s "Third Eye" is referring to,
                    was also discovered by Ancient Indians.
                    The secrets of The Third Eye, also known as the pineal gland,
                    has been a key focus of many mystical Yoga practices
                    for millions of years in India.
                    Pythagoras, the West's great mathematician and mystic, enrolled himself
                    in an Egyptian Mystery School, where they turned him down at the gates
                    because they said he must purify himself first, by fasting for 40 days
                    and doing a meditation in which you watch your breath and focus on your
                    Third Eye, the source of DMT.
                    This is a very ancient Indian meditation technique, also explained
                    by Krishna to his disciple and friend Arjuna
                    in the ancient Indian scripture Bhagavad Gita.
                    But the technique FAR predates the Bhagavad Gita.
                    Aside from Ancient Egypt,
                    the only other civilization that had extensive knowledge
                    of such advanced mathematics was Ancient India.
                    Evidence now shows that not only did ancient Babylonian geometry
                    have it's source in The Shulbasutras (Ancient Indian mathematics texts),
                    but Egypt's system of mathematics was also derived from The Shulbasutras.
                    The Shulbasutras were created for the purpose
                    of designing strict altars for Vedic (Indian) rituals.
                    Research has clearly shown
                    that in EVERY time period of Ancient Egypt's monuments,
                    common trapezoidal Vedic altars can be found.
                    A story tells of how Egyptian Civilization goes as far back
                    as the time of Lord Parashurama in India.
                    The Ancient Indian Scripture Mahabharata explains that
                    Parashurama killed all the ruling kings in India
                    who were cruel, dishonest, and corrupt;
                    those who were against the Vedic culture.
                    The Mahabharata further explains
                    that the earliest kings of Ancient Egypt
                    were originally the miscreant kings and warriors
                    who had fled India due to their fear of Lord Parashurama.
                    Once they settled in Egypt,
                    they started their own perverted, distorted version of India's Vedic culture.
                    It was also known that the ancient Egyptians believed
                    that their entire civilization originated “across the sea in a land to the East.”
                    Go east across the Arabian Sea and you land on the west coast of India.
                    There’s a lot more info out there than I feel like posting here
                    that shows Egypt's Indian origins.
                    The point I’m trying to make
                    is that any spiritual knowledge worth knowing
                    that came out of Egypt, has its source in India,
                    so one should seek there for the answers,
                    or rather, for the questions.
                    written by Om
      • Re: Egyptians, Afterlife, the Pineal Gland and DMT

        Sun, January 21, 2007 - 12:43 AM
        Kevin, this is my first time browsing this tribe and I've found your comments to be wise, open, and well researched. Because of this respect I have for your opinion I'm obligated to keep you honest. I have to bring attention to your distain for Graham Hancock. While at Wasiwaska last summer I was fortunate enough to see Graham's slide presentation of that underwater civilization. I knew nothing about it before hand and your comments are the first I've heard of it since, but I have to say that those pictures his wife took are unbelievably convincing. Perfect rectangular solids stacked on top of each other, chambers, staircases...structures that I was unable to believe could have happened "naturally". I'm not a credible geologist by any stretch of the imagination and my mind was blown wide open at the time from two weeks of ayhuasca ceremonies, AND I still have to side with Graham on this one.

        I've paid my dues in the academic arena and I feel that it gave me a language to work with. Beyond that I find it quite limiting while attempting to explore that which can not and perhaps is better off left unexplained. My impression of Graham was not one of a man convinced of his own validity, but that of man who's seen some shit that just does not follow academic reason. During the presentation he never made any claims about being right, he was merely sharing his discoveries and saying "Hey, look at this. What's this about?"
        • Re: Egyptians, Afterlife, the Pineal Gland and DMT

          Sun, January 21, 2007 - 1:57 PM
          Hehe... Yea, I noticed that Graham was at Wasiwaska. John Anthony West, too. I see Luna must be getting into the fringe anthropology and archaeology (which is fine - I love Luis).

          Um, well, regarding the Yonaguni "monument" and Hancock's position, I would start by saying that, yes, the photos look VERY convincing, and that is what Hancock banks on. But, Schoch said that when he got to the actual site, it didn't look like it looked in the photos and he found plenty of examples of nearby rocks that were naturally cut in exactly the same way, and explains quite throroughly why the rocks break off in flat shelves like that. John Anthony West and Graham Hancock were both there on the expedition and as Schoch found more and more evidence that it was natural and not man-made West conceded while Hancock did not. If you have bit torrent (which everyone should) you can download a show on the subject at: www.mininova.org/tor/362133

          or look at: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yonaguni (the wikipedia article)

          or www.robertschoch.net/Enigmat...20CT.htm (the geologist, Robert Schoch's article on the "monument"

          I will admit that there are still advocates on both sides of the coin, but I am of the opinion that Schoch did a pretty good job in debunking this one. The only scientific proponents that I am aware of who still maintain that this MIGHT still be man-made are some of the local scientists involved in the on-going study, but their method seems to be assuming that it's man-made and trying to prove that (not very successfully) instead of just suspending judgment and looking for the correct answer. Like I said, I'm still willing to be open on this, but I don't think Hancock is very convincing. You may think otherwise, and having met him yourself, you may have a different take on that than I do, but I can definitely see how a presentation by Hancock without anyone to criticize him, could be convincing, because that is exactly what it is meant to be. I think that one of the more interesting points here is that Robert Schoch is not the type of geologist who goes around trying to disprove everybody's theories. He is the geologist who, along with West, proposed that the Sphinx is much older than modern Egyptologists will admit, based on the erosional patterns around it. As far as I know he still holds this to be true, despite resistance from the Egyptological community (and, I believe, acceptance from the geological community), but when he went to visit Yonaguni he just couldn't come to the conclusion that it was man-made. This at least shows me that Schoch is not, like it seems Hancock is, looking to simply prove what he wants to believe.
          • Re: Egyptians, Afterlife, the Pineal Gland and DMT

            Mon, January 22, 2007 - 5:26 AM
            Here is what Hancock actually says in Chapter 27 of his book Underworld about Schoch's views (pp 598-600):

            The second geologist to dive at Yonaguni, Professor Robert Schoch of Boston University, has vacillated tenaciously in his opinions – but I take this as a sign of an open-minded scholar ever willing to revise his views in the light of new evidence.

            Thus when we first dived there together in September 1997, he was sure that the structure was man-made. [i] Within a few days, however, he had changed his mind completely:

            I believe that the structure can be explained as the result of natural processes… The geology of the fine mudstones and sandstones of the Yonaguni area , combined with wave and current actions and the lower sea-levels of the area during earlier millennia, were responsible for the formation of the Yonaguni Monument about 9000 to 10,000 years ago. [ii]

            A few days later, Schoch softened his position again:

            After meeting with Professor Kimura, I cannot totally discount the possibility that the Yonaguni Monument was at least partially worked and modified by the hands of humans. Professor Kimura pointed out several key features that I did not see on my first brief trip… If I should have the opportunity to revisit the Yonaguni monument, these are key areas that I would wish to explore. [iii]

            Schoch did have an opportunity to revisit the structure in the summer of 1998, carrying out several more dives there. Then in 1999 in an interview given to the BBC science programme "Horizon" for a documentary attacking my work – and in the same year in his own book Voices of the Rocks -- he expressed what sound like two very different, even contradictory opinions about the structure.

            Here is the relevant section from the BBC Horizon transcript:

            NARRATOR:

            Yonaguni looked as if it could be a spectacular discovery and Hancock needed corroboration. He invited the Boston University geologist Robert Schoch to inspect the site. Professor Schoch has taken a keen interest in unorthodox views of the past and he welcomed the chance to examine the underwater discovery. Schoch dived with Hancock several times at Yonaguni.

            PROF. ROBERT SCHOCH (Boston University):

            I went there in this case actually hoping that it was a totally man-made structure that was now submerged underwater, that dated maybe back to 6,000 BC or more. When I got there and I got to dive on the structure I have to admit I was very, very disappointed because I was basically convinced after a few dives that this was primarily, possibly totally, a natural structure… Isolated portions of it look like they're man-made, but when you look at it in context you look at the shore features etc and you see how, in this case, fine sandstones split along horizontal bedding plains that gives you these regular features. I'm convinced it's a natural structure. [iv]

            Well that seems straightforward. But then here is what Schoch says in Voices of the Rocks:

            Possibly the choice between natural and human-made isn't simply either/or. Yonaguni Island contains a number of old tombs whose exact age is uncertain, but that are clearly very old. Curiously the architecture of the tombs is much like that of the monument. It is possible that humans were imitating the monument in designing the tombs, and it is equally possible that the monument was itself somehow modified by human hands. That is, the ancient inhabitants of the island may have partially reshaped or enhanced a natural structure to give it the form they wished, either as a structure on its own or as the foundation of a timber, mud or stone building that has since been destroyed. It is also possible that the monument served as a quarry from which blocks were cut, following the natural bedding, joint and fracture planes of the rock, then removed to construct buildings that are now long gone. Since it is located along the coast the Yonaguni Monument may even have served as some kind of natural boat dock for an early seafaring people. As Dr Kimura showed me, ancient stone tools beautifully crafted from igneous rock have been found on Yonaguni. Significantly, Yonaguni has no naturally exposed igneous rocks, so the tools, or at least the raw materials from which they were made, must have been imported from neighbouring islands where such rock is found. The tools could have been used to modify or reshape the natural stone structures now found underwater off the coast of Yonaguni. The concept of a human-enhanced natural structure fits well with East Asian aesthetics, such as the feng shui of China and the Zen-inspired rock gardens of Japan. A complex interaction between natural and human-made forms that influenced human art and architecture 8000 years ago is highly possible. [v]

            As further evidence for a very ancient human role in the construction of the Yonaguni monument, Schoch then sets out an argument of mine, advanced in my 1998 book Heaven's Mirror, that the structure is not only man-made but could also have served a specific astronomical function -- since calculations show that around 10,000 years ago, when it was above water, it would have stood on the ancient Tropic of Cancer. [vi] Writes Schoch:

            The ancients, I suspect, knew where the tropic was, and they knew that… its position moved slowly. Since Yonaguni is close to the most northerly position the tropic reaches in its lengthy cycle, the island may have been the site of an astronomically aligned shrine. [vii]

            In summary, therefore, Schoch has not come down definitively either on one side of the fence or on the other but seems to be wavering in the direction of a compromise in which the structure is both natural and man-made at the same time.

            I cannot avoid adding that all rock-hewn structures, whether the weird terraced granite outcrop at Qenko near Sacsayhuaman in Peru, [viii] or the wonders of Petra in Jordan, or the temples of Mahabalipuram in South India are, by definition partly natural – the base rock out of which they are hewn – and partly man-made. They can't help but be anything else.


            _______________________________________________________________
            [i] See his contribution to my 1998 television series Quest for the Lost Civilisation
            [ii] See Heaven's Mirror, 215-216
            [iii] See Heaven's Mirror, 217
            [iv] BBC2 Horizon, 4 Nov 1999
            [v] Schoch, Voices of the Rocks op.cit., 111-112
            [vi] See Schoch, Voices of the Rocks, 112-113; Hancock and Faiia, Heaven's Mirror, 217-221
            [vii] Schoch, Voices of the Rocks, 112
            [viii] See discussion in Heaven's Mirror
            • Re: Egyptians, Afterlife, the Pineal Gland and DMT

              Mon, January 22, 2007 - 12:14 PM
              Yes, the article that I linked to below is exactly Schoch's report that Hancock refers to in this section. And, while Hancock essentially repeats Schoch's report, the way he repeats it is exactly what I have grown to expect from Hancock. He repeats Schoch's words in whatever is the best way possible to make it sound like Schoch agrees with him. When, in fact, a) Schoch is nowhere near convinced, as Hancock makes it seems or as Hancock himself is and b) Hancock, I think, slighly misrepresents Schoch's statements.

              Hancock asserts that Schoch stated that after seeing further evidence from Kimura that he changed his mind. But, Schoch has still not been able to corroborate Kimura's evidence.

              Also, Hancock says that "as further evidence" Schoch points out a theory of Hancock's about the Tropic of Cancer. Actually, Schoch didn't say anything about using this as evidence, he just said that this was another theory that someone has presented. He didn't even say that it was a theory he supported.

              Finally, Hancock, completely ignores the section where Kimura admits that he has "softened his position" regarding the degree of artificiality of the "monument". As well, as ignoring Schoch's conclusion that the rock, rather than being constructed by man, most likely was rather an aesthetic influence on early inhabitants (which seems much more likely, to me at least). But, anyways, these are just my continued thoughts. Every time I hear Hancock he seems to be clutching for straws, which is not very impressive to me, though I do think it is important to have fringe researchers (I just wish they were more critical of themselves). Please continue to support your views. I find this very interesting...

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