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Hi, I am new to this forum and thought I would introduce myself before diving in as I usually do...I think I have read the most interesting posts I have seen on the net so far in these pages. Excellent subjects and also very profound.
While swim is a relative newcomer to the DMT experience, he has been taking "psychedelics" and reached altered states of consciousness both through meditation and through native american ceremonies (sweat lodge) for years. I was curious if anyone knew of anyone who experienced gesticulations (geometric hand gestures with meaning; flowing, seemingly of their own accord) during their "trips."
Swim has noticed this with LSD and mushrooms, and had very similar experiences in a "natural state" (without chemicals) and yet with DMT, it seems to be a major element of the experience. I have never heard anyone bring this up and am wondering if swim has some erratic brain chemistry or are most people so amazed by the visual aspect that they forget to bring it up?
While swim is a relative newcomer to the DMT experience, he has been taking "psychedelics" and reached altered states of consciousness both through meditation and through native american ceremonies (sweat lodge) for years. I was curious if anyone knew of anyone who experienced gesticulations (geometric hand gestures with meaning; flowing, seemingly of their own accord) during their "trips."
Swim has noticed this with LSD and mushrooms, and had very similar experiences in a "natural state" (without chemicals) and yet with DMT, it seems to be a major element of the experience. I have never heard anyone bring this up and am wondering if swim has some erratic brain chemistry or are most people so amazed by the visual aspect that they forget to bring it up?
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Minneapolis
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Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Wed, January 28, 2009 - 7:10 AMThis makes OH so much sense!
Our first languages (Ogam, Sumerian) were based on 10,000,000 years of grunting, singing along with Signing. -
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Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Wed, January 28, 2009 - 7:46 AMYes Yes' I confer' my body gesticulates and my hands make symbols per-se'
Sign language would have been our base language for thousands of years' so as of when the filters come down' we jump into primal mode'
Here is one to try'
Eyes open on spice' run your nogging through the symbols of the alpha-beit :)))
All at base is symbols'
Blissings
Nobuoni + -
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Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Wed, February 4, 2009 - 11:31 AMSwim tried the alphabet thing a few days back...only got about half way through. Waves of laughter pulsed through him almost immediately. It felt familiar and futile at the same time. Not real sure what that means...but thanks! -
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Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Thu, February 5, 2009 - 9:29 AMSwim tried the alphabet thing a few days back...only got about half way through. Waves of laughter pulsed through him almost immediately. It felt familiar and futile at the same time. Not real sure what that means...but thanks!
All at base is symbols'
I get with eyes open' each symbol and of how it relates to my psychi' and yep' untold laughter for sure'
The hardest thing I have found is to do a moderate pipe' then type on your keybourd or search your hard-drive for a song' ha ha ha
Makes me feel just like the freakin computer' lots of head shaking and mixxxxxxxxies' lol
Safe journeys folks
Nobuoni +
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Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Wed, January 28, 2009 - 8:11 AMI'm glad I'm not alone in this one! lol
So this is purely a physical phenomenon carried in our DNA?
I always thought because of how fluid the motions are that it was somehow spiritual flows. -
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Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Wed, January 28, 2009 - 12:47 PMwhen tuned to spirit flow,
all becomes a conduit of divine expression,
reflected throughout in all of its amazing subtle articulations....
.....~(*!*)~..... -
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Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Wed, January 28, 2009 - 8:19 PMyes, have definitely had this experience a couple times.
it is so amazing to me how real the motions of the entities are, its almost more real than the external world, in a strange, incomprehensible sense. -
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Unsu...
Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Wed, January 28, 2009 - 9:43 PMCarlos Castanada's later books (his first 4-6 books have been de-bunked by most scholars) deal with this phenomona. he calls them "magical passes.
I used to think that these movents were substance specific, but now feel there are many ways to experience this "magic".
One can move ther arms and hands all they want, but unless they rise there inner energy (kundalini?) you probally wont experience much. This is where the drugs come in. (Salvia, Ketamine, DMT,LSD, ect)
SWIM once said that the energy generated by moveing the arms and hands in these "magical passes" was the basis for her Reiki practice.
If you surf You-tube, there are plenty of vides of people smoking Salvia doing these hand movements but dont realize it.
heres an example, at around the 1:45 mark he starts doing magical passes and probally doesnt realize it.
video.google.com/videoplay
Its the "higher selves" coming to make an appearence.
With enough practice, people are capable of doing SO much crazy stuff.
Especially when you combine voice with the arms and hand movment. As far as i can tell, you can open up some kind of vortex that you and who evers on the same page as you, can go into, as your "higher-selves"
I say "as far as I can tell", because for some reason you can only retain about 5-15% of the memory of the experience. You know something profound has happened....BUT WHAT???
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Unsu...
Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Wed, January 28, 2009 - 9:48 PMi just re-watched the Salvis video i posted, and should have said to start looking for magical passes around 1:15 not 1:45.
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Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Thu, January 29, 2009 - 11:51 AMI am a big fan of Castenada. I've read maybe half of his books, some earlier, some later writings. It's nice to hear another persons perspective on these as I've never put the two together. ("magical passes" and this phenomenon)
I have to say though that this person smoking the salvia is not moving in the manner I'm trying to describe. The gestures swim has experienced are far more fluid and seem to form, while not in the same order everytime, more geometric patterns and even incorporate religious forms of "praying". The hands are always open, sometimes touching palms others resting at the sides. A lot of circular and triangular forms manifest.
I have gotten a lot of good responses on this topic, it almost seems now that I have known the answers all along and only had to be reminded. Much appreciation to all of you who responded!
btw, are you saying you've done this vortex thing? I would be very interested in hearing more on that topic.
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Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Thu, January 29, 2009 - 1:52 PMHi,
I am practicing Tensegrity since six years. I learned
eighty percent of the book, which is almost four group
of practices. There are five groups.
These movements deal with the energy body.
With or without entheogen, these magical passes
work perfectly.
With entheogen, naturally it is more difficult.
Entheogenics guarantee the the passage to altered
states but tires the metabolism hardly and creates
a certain addiction.
It is really pleasant to experience the 'dream time',
with the help of LSD, aYa, or else.
What is not possible is to learn this art without
help, a certain vision and knowledge.
Sorcerer's passes are preparing one for these
alter states, creates the desired energy.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Thu, January 29, 2009 - 3:38 PMabout the video,
Yeah, I know that he is not doing FULL passes, what is going on, is a transition of sorts, between his EGO body and his higher self. That is why you see him start to do the passes, then he becomes conscious (ego) and puts his hands to his head for comfort.
When one can let go, you can use the motions of the arms to generate the INNER energy, also combine this motion with the voice (see solfeggio HZ frequencies...thanks NUBO!) to activate MANY different phenomona.
I think I am going to post a thread on the different phenomona that I have discovered/experienced.
Salvia is a great energy. If you can relax your ego body and just go with the flow, I have found that the Magical Passes phenomona is very common.
Actually , I have found, that if you completely let go, and give yourself completely over to the experience. It as if the body KNOWS what to do all ready. the perfect sounds come out of your mouth, and the passes you make with the arms and hands come naturally. Is this channeling?
As for Tensegrity...I dont know much about it. But I can say, I have almost but givien up on trying to catch glimpses of my higher self without the use of some kind of sacrament, after over a decade of meditation, I can only say, that I have no idea how to 'get there" without the sacrement, and what I have experienced with the sacrement has been life changing, where the mediation/yoga/sleep deprivation ect, has done very little for me.
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Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Fri, January 30, 2009 - 8:56 AMThat makes a lot of sense, everytime swim becomes focused on the movements they seem to become erratic or stop altogether.
I believe it is channeling; like someone pointed out in this thread 'channeling the divine'. Not so much in the sense of sorcery (at least in my opinion) its more like 'being in your proper orbit' ,if that makes any sense.
You said, when you completely let go, the body knows what to do, I have found this to be very true. You kind of have to get in the backseat and just 'enjoy the ride'.
That is a great Idea for a thread, should be some interesting posts in that one!
I've tried salvia a few times, not for me.
I have never heard of Tensegrity, but within 6 months of daily meditation I experienced full blown visions; more than I was expecting!
Swim prefers the sacrement as well, these plants evolved along side us all these years and they have much to share. -
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Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Tue, February 3, 2009 - 9:30 AMMu-raka: "when tuned to spirit flow,
all becomes a conduit of divine expression,
reflected throughout in all of its amazing subtle articulations...."
Nice! Real nice!! This pretty much sums it up ever so succinctly.
Celphaware: "these plants evolved along side us all these years and they have much to share."
Yes, my thoughts exactly. I have meditated extensively as well, but never quite reached the heights I've reached without certain 'help' ...
After my first 5-MeO DMT experience many years ago, when I came back to myself, I couldn't help but notice and wonder how my hands got interlocked the way that they did. I mean, it was intricate. In fact, once I 'unlocked' them, I was unable to duplicate the way they had naturally 'locked.' It was as if a current had kept my hands together in this peculiar fashion...
Long before I ever heard the the quantum mechanics metaphor of a butterfly's flapping wings being able to cause a tsunami at the other end of the world, I had realised, with the aid of an entheogen, that every motion (of my body) sets off a universal cascade of energy, and that everything in essence exists in an interconnected state of multi-dimensional vibration; everything affects everything.
Plato (Platonic solids) et all were onto something, I'd say =)
Enteogens allow us to peek into the inner workings of the energetic flow, or "the wiring under the board" as Terence McKenna put it.
Nice going everyone, and really glad to have you here celphaware! -
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Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Wed, February 4, 2009 - 11:16 AMThanks for the kind welcome.
There are so many good posts on here now...
I'm glad this struck a chord with so many people. I've known for some time that there is much power in the hands, (or the ability to "channel" much) one just has to look at all the hand signals out there to get a glimpse. I would love to see all of these put together in some order and find a higher meaning behind it. Maybe this is Tensegrity? I am going to look into that.
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Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Wed, February 4, 2009 - 11:35 AMya thanks dimi, what can i say, i was inspired...
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Mon, February 9, 2009 - 7:59 AMI looked into this (tensegrity) and it sounds fascinating. is this all based on the teachings of Don Juan? I'm interested to know what this has done for you in relation to personal energy. Can you use this to enter "hyperspace" without the aid of entheogens?
Thanks for bringing this up!
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Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Fri, January 30, 2009 - 4:46 PMI tried sitting in lotus with hand mudra's as i smoked my second pipe. i could see my hands in my mind as a voice said "watch this" i felt my fingers inadvertently tap away a few fingers against the thumb on left side before...whoosh.
Glad this came up to help remind me of one amongst ten thousand things that amazed me during the course of what..ten minutes. so blessed to have arrived at this chemical crossroads only to find i never needed wings to fly
blessings -
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Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Wed, February 4, 2009 - 9:30 AMDon't have the time for in depth right now, but I like this subject.
I came across a guy who claims the Tora, hebrew alphabet, is 3 dimensional. "The alphabet in our hands", or sump'n like that.
A geometric spiral, the flame lookin one that fits inside a tetrahedron, a slice of a tube taurus, is sitting in both our hands. Depending on where your hands are around your body, the sillouette of this spiral creates the letters of the alphabet when you look at them with your minds eye. You always know where your hands are and what they're doing, even with eyes closed. I'm prolly not making any sense, and I can't remember the guys name, but what better way to keep an alphbet from being destroyed. Hide it in the mind and body of man.
I know you geniuses will find what I'm talking about. I'm not too comp savvy.
I am VERY intrigued by the tora these days. -
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Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Mon, February 9, 2009 - 8:10 AMSo maybe these "passes" are a form of communication between spiritual entities and physically manifest as hands and arm movements? A kind of universal alphabet?
Makes a lot of sense. I have noticed clear "praying" poses both in the christian and muslim sense, (of which I'm neither, they are the only ones I'm conscioussly aware of). Come to think of it Tai Chi is very similar also. I recently saw an article on Sufi muslims and the dances they perform are in line with this as well...
the torah is an interesting book! A lot of great things in there once you get past the mythology and geneology! imho
thanks Puma
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Sat, February 14, 2009 - 10:32 AMsometimes i feel like the hand movements/passes are like being a conductor in a symphony. fantasia comes to mind, its as if your not entirely willing/commanding the flow, you actually are flowing WITH it, like a dance where you can add your own flares or do a solo and take it improve style, shaping it like wet clay on a potters wheel, bringing it higher and to life.... -
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Unsu...
Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Sat, February 14, 2009 - 10:48 AMey mu
do you ever form mudras?
now thooose are interesting.
this flow is coming from your throat chakra
and when you are in synch
you got pinwheels in your palms
flowing in and out -
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Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Sat, February 14, 2009 - 8:34 PMhmmmmnn....yes it seems, though not intentionally in that style, very cool i will have to read up some more.
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Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Wed, February 4, 2009 - 12:40 PMI'm more overwhelmed by the euphoric aspect. :) -
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Re: intro and geometry (flows)
Mon, February 9, 2009 - 8:13 AMRiding the waves!
Yes, the euphoria is a great feeling. Taking you up and out.
thanks brother!
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