DEA and 5-MeO-DMT

topic posted Mon, October 19, 2009 - 10:03 AM by  Ryan
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I knew this would happen. We should have kept it on the down-low. Now another of the very few non-scheduled entheofgens is about to be made Schedule I.

It was inevitable after the publication of _Tryptamine Palace_ by James Oroc and
_The Entheogenic Evolution_ by Martin W. Ball .

edocket.access.gpo.gov/2009/E9-20204.htm
www.regulations.gov/search/R...ketDetail

This deeply unfortunate.
Ryan

I don't blame Oroc and Ball for wanting to share there remarkable experiences, but once the cat is out of the bag, it can almost never be put back in. The government just wont tolerate the few non-sceduled entheogens becoming public knowledge.
posted by:
Ryan
Minnesota
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  • Re: DEA and 5-MeO-DMT

    Mon, October 19, 2009 - 7:16 PM
    Nope not suprised at all. 5meo is one of the strongest(psychedelic) chems.. though like n,n it is found naturally in quite a few plants/seeds/trees, so good luck with eraticating it from the planet(lol). and if you think the dea/supposed powers that be haven't know about all these chems from the get go... like it's some big secret here in our own community, well then you fool yourself. Tihkal and Pihkal are internationally published books and can be read by um.. anyone.


    • Re: DEA and 5-MeO-DMT

      Mon, October 19, 2009 - 9:37 PM
      Sure the government and many people in the psychedelic community have known about it. However, having two books (that focus on 5-MeO-DMT almost exclusively) published within a year is very different than the references in Tihkal and such.

      I very much enjoyed both books, but knew as soon as I read them that the DEA would start a change in policy within a year or two. Which in fact is just what happened.

      Oh well, there are still a number of interesting non-scheduled plants and chemicals. It's just that 5-MeO-DMT was definitely one of my favorites and I'm sad to see it moving rapidly towards being Schedule I. It is truly an amazing compound once you figure out how to use it.

      The truly ridiculous thing is that *very* few people actually use it, so IMHO it doesn't really meet the DEAs own scheduling guidelines

      Warm Regards,
      Ryan

      PS I certainly don't blame Oroc or Ball, but the inevitable did get greatly accelerated with the increased public visibility of the compound.
      • Re: DEA and 5-MeO-DMT

        Tue, October 20, 2009 - 6:01 AM
        "This proposed action is based on a recommendation from the Acting Assistant Secretary for Health of the Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) and on an evaluation of the relevant data by DEA."

        A recommendation from the Acting Assistant Secretary for Health? Who the fuck does he/she think she is? =)

        I may have had my head stuck in the sand on this issue, but I was under the impression that 5-MeO DMT fell under the analogues act and was in effect already scheduled (?)
        • Re: DEA and 5-MeO-DMT

          Tue, October 20, 2009 - 8:07 AM
          "I was under the impression that 5-MeO DMT fell under the analogues act and was in effect already scheduled (?) "
          I was under the very same impression! Where would one have obtained 5-MeO DMT in months
          previous to the near present? Contact yer favorite proprietor of RCs? HaHaHa!!! LOFL!!! BOO FUCKING HISS!
          • Re: DEA and 5-MeO-DMT

            Tue, October 20, 2009 - 1:14 PM
            Under the analog act its status was ambiguous at best. There had never been a federal prosecution, so the issue had never been decided in any court, and as things stood before the DEA policy shift, it was unlike that there ever would be such a prosecution. State laws vary however, and a state neighboring mine (SD) does prosecute.

            Under the analog act, even if 5-MeO-DMT was officially ruled an analog (which TtBoMK never happened) they would still need evidence of consumption or intent to consume. The analog act never made simple possession illegal according to my understanding (but I'm not a lawyer).

            And yes, it was still available the last time I checked, but that situation is likely to have changed by now (or at least it soon will)

            Warm Regards
  • Re: DEA and 5-MeO-DMT

    Fri, October 30, 2009 - 4:53 PM
    Just picked up "Tryptamine Palace" by Oroc. Good read so far. Nice mention of our fearless mod. =)

    How will this effect possession and sale of the toad?

    Since this is still in the proposal stage, is it worth writing my local rep. or other officials? Have any of you done this already? I notice a call for Public Comments... any thought of gathering together to write a letter?

    Sad, truly sad. I mean, do these guys have a definition of Schedule I I'm unaware of?

    --
    Kenneth
    • Re: DEA and 5-MeO-DMT

      Sat, October 31, 2009 - 4:39 AM
      If you gathered "Heads" straghts n' general joe citizen together and offered them a breakthough hit of 5meo-dmt'

      98 % of em would refuse'

      How is that "Schedule 1"

      Addictive' hahaha' kissing my ass is more addictive' my wife and others have done so way more times than blowing "Spice" :)))

      heehee

      Sex is addictive' "Schedule 1" that' Coil'

      Plant bliss!


      Strictly speaking the toad is at fault' as are we' producing psycho-active substances naturaly'

      No doubt make that ilegal one day also' hahahaha

      Assholes stretch' to fit bigger heads'

      Nobu +

      Excuse' I got a snivel cold and feel like trashing most things material'
      I shall return'
      After meditations with more spice :)))


      Headlines'

      Wanted dead or alive for manufacture and supply

      Pineal gland' lungs' red blood cells' gray matter' toads' trees' shrubs n' bushes'

      Reward'

      Electro-quantum implant and brain removal'
      • Re: DEA and 5-MeO-DMT

        Sun, November 8, 2009 - 5:56 AM
        Hard to believe they'd actually go after the toad. Illegal plants is a strange enough concept - especially something as ubiquitous as cannabis - but arresting citizens for possessing an amphibian, that's a whole new level. LOL - "step away from the toad, hippie, and no one gets hurt."
  • Re: DEA and 5-MeO-DMT

    Tue, November 17, 2009 - 9:39 AM
    Well, I knew this would happen sooner or later ... and since some of you think that my book Tryptamine Palace is some how responsible for the impending schedule change for 5-MeO-DMT, I guess I had better throw my two cents worth in.

    Lets examine the Timeline:

    2002: Operation Web Tryp was launched by the DEA in 2002 after police busted a "rave-party" at Hampton roads Navel Base in Virginia, and the sailors told the cops that they had bought their drugs (2-CI?) off the internet.

    In July of 2004 - while I was down in the Sonora chasing toads with Yo-Yo - the boot came down, and the feds arrested 10 people running 5 different research chemical labs. ("This is Your Country on Drugs", Ryan Grim)

    Point 1 * The sale of compounds on the internet, and the spread of those sales via information web sites (just like this one) is the Number 1 reason 5-MeO-DMT started on the path to Schedule 1 ...prior to that the Feds didnt even know what it was.

    2005-2006: 5-MeO-DMT virtually drops off the internet, other than by scam web-sites offering 'Legal Acid'.
    One of the big English Newspapers runs an article calling 5-MeO-DMT, 'The New Ecstacy' and reveals the fact that it could
    be bought on the internet,

    2006 -2007 I gift 500 copies (in 2 versions) of Tryptamine Palace at Burning Man. By this time I personally can no longer find 5-MeO-DMT any where (and still cant). I write - in my book - that I considered not writing the book at all, because I was afraid of 'ruining a good thing', but by the time I gift the first playa versions that seems irrelevant any way.

    2008 My book is discussed on Martin Ball's 'The Entheogenic Evolution Pod-Cast' before he has ever tried 5-MeO and I can tell he is a little skeptical. Weeks later he tries it , and is 100% converted - Martin then writes his book in an astonishingly short time (as he does!). Inner Traditions accept my book for publication just as I am about to self-publish, so I go back to work. In the end I wrote 9 full versions of Tryptamine Palace with 3 different editors to get to the final version which is now available. The Burning Man editions were Versions 1 and 2!

    2008. As interest in my book grows, more and more people ask me - including well know psychedelic authors, DJ's, artists etc ... I buy some supposed 5-MeO at a festival in SoCal that is bunk. I hear rumors of over seas web sites that will ship to the US, but no one can ever show me an effective link, so if these exist, they are being kept very secret.

    Jan 2009 or so ... Martin releases his book
    June 2009 Inner Traditons release 'Tryptamine Palace'

    August 2009 ... DEA announces re-scheduling of 5-Meo - DMT...


    Point 2 * Now, as much as I might like to think my work is that influential, I don't think anyone who knows any thing about the federal government would believe that 3 months after the publication of an obscure book with a readership of less than 5000. the Feds would leap into action by making the compound involved illegal - personally, I thoroughly doubt that the DEA even knows my books exists, it took them 2 years to figure out that the Shulgins had published PIHKAL!

    Point 3 * The Internet and Newspaper articles have reached hundreds of thousands of homes, if not millions, in comparison. Any concerned parent can google the subject and read the harrowing trip reports on EROWID, or even worse, the You Tube videos of idiot kids smoking it in front of the TV while drinking beers etc etc ... And judging from the number of emails I am receiving, most of my readership seems to be OUTSIDE of the US anyway.

    Final Point * Jon Hanna, from Mind States, was the original editor of my book, and has been noted, Dimi 3 himself has endorsed it - I am sure that if either of these individuals had thought that my book would negatively effect the sincere use of this compound, they would not have offered their project.

    In conclusion, I would like to point out that in my book advocates the point-of-view that 5-MeO-DMT is not drug, but the most sacred entheogen of all. And while my book is a wild 'trip-report' of sorts, I worked very hard to uncover every nugget of info about 5-MeO-DMT, and about DMT, that I could find, since there was precious little information out there, and I was worried about people over-dosing as I had done (twice). If we are ever going to win the battle to make entheogens both legal and a respected part of our spirituality, then we have to inform the general public about the power and beauty of these compounds so a real debate on these compounds value can begin... this is some thing which I feel I have accomplished with 'Tryptamine Palace', while if I had done nothing, 5-MeO-DMT still would have been rescheduled, and the void of information would still exist.

    In line with this philosophy, I am currently building www.TryptaminePalace.com, which hopefully will become the leading source of information on the Tryptamine family on the web. There will be a forum page similar to these ones, so I hope you all check it out!

    Oroc.

    PS I dont think the rescheduling will really affect the rare pursuit of toading ... to date 5-MeO-DMT has actually only been found in a single sample of toad venom back in the 60's ... prosecute, they would have to catch you with the dried venom in hand, then test it etc etc ... pretty unlikely in my opinion (This is the same reason its hard to bust people for mushrooms ... its the psilocybin thats illegal, not the shroom itself ...)

    PPS You do all know that TIHKAL - which was totally a slap in the fact of the Federal Government after the hassles the Shulgins got from writing PIHKAL - means 'Tryptamines I have Known and Loved'. And that it has the formula for 5-MeO-DMT in it. And has sold over 60,00 copies. And that pretty much every Drug enforcement Agency in the world has a copy of it ...

    But I dont hear anyone blaming Sasha for anything ...;
    • Re: DEA and 5-MeO-DMT

      Tue, November 17, 2009 - 10:59 AM
      i for one applaud your efforts, and thank you for your addition to the great traditions of spreading "true" knowledge and information. and frankly i refrained from commenting on this topic originally because i thought the accusations were uncalled for, 5-MeO-DMT has been mentioned in a number books that have been published well before Oroc or Martins books ever came out, the scheduling had been in the works for years.....

      .....and nice time line, that sums it up well.....
    • Re: DEA and 5-MeO-DMT

      Tue, November 17, 2009 - 4:08 PM
      > 5-MeO-DMT is not drug, but the most sacred entheogen of all

      And I wholeheartedly agree. Your book is a gem Oroc. Personally, I think of it as a gift to the world.


      Always remember, information wants to be free ;-)
      • Re: DEA and 5-MeO-DMT

        Tue, November 17, 2009 - 6:13 PM
        Gilmore's law - 'the Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it'

        You could say the same about entheogens ... there are over a million LSD users in the US, despite it being illegal for more than 40 years - an estimated 750 000 people tried Salvia in the US last year - and the next decade is looking like it will be the DMT decade, after it was once one of the rarest compounds of all to find ... people were smoking it in the crowds at festivals I attended this summer on the West Coast ... willd!

        So by making 5-MeO-DMT illegal, they will only spread its demand and popularity. Maybe THAT is what this is all about!

        Thank you for your support gentleman ...

        Roc
        • Re: DEA and 5-MeO-DMT

          Yesterday, 5:44 PM
          hello yes i have question....


          with this regulation as schedule I is it only limited to the powder itself or the plants etc that may contain it.

          i see november 27th is the end of comments -at that date will it be put into law ?
        • Re: DEA and 5-MeO-DMT

          Today, 9:18 AM
          > So by making 5-MeO-DMT illegal, they will only spread its demand and popularity. Maybe THAT is what this is all about!

          No shit. I'm in a work group here in Europe which discusses drug policy, and one thing most agree on is the fact that making something illegal has an adverse effect upon demand. One example is that Holland where cannabis is legally obtainable by anyone (over 18) has amongst the fewest per capita cannabis users in all of Europe.

          No government or any of its institutions by any of their actions can contain the inherent human quest for illumination. At best, they can keep to themselves and let history run its course ;-)
          • Re: DEA and 5-MeO-DMT

            Today, 9:27 AM
            The end of a Baktun' into the age of "Transformation of Matter"

            Headline the "Spirit Molecules to the World"

            Transcendence'

            This is the "Age of Aqarius"

            Embrace it :)))

            Bliss!

            Nobu +

            The quest of man is to attain spiritual "Freedom"

            Feck' "Goose Bumps" :)))

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