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the void

topic posted Wed, May 2, 2007 - 7:53 AM by  Rev. Roderic...
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about a week ago i had my most intense DMT experience to date. i dropped a 2cb in the afternoon and after a rather magical cavort in the local park with a similarly twisted friend retreated back home for some 5- meo- DMT. i had been completely free of any other drugs or alchohol for days before hand and had been doing yoga, so the 2cb found me relaxed and tuned in with my surroundings. i had also eaten very little over the course of the day. i knew that 2cb acts as an enhancer, so the fact i'd taken it would invariably enhance the effects of the DMT. my friend and I sat down on my bed and prepared the dosage. it was his first time doing a proper DMT trip so I found myself, despite being similarly inexperienced,(it was my first time with 5meo) taking a guiding role. i gave him his hit first and as he sank into a trance began to prepare my own. as i lit the pipe and began to inhale he opened his eyes and looked directly at me with a look of despair....."its all gone wrong.." he uttered, shaking his head. "oh no.." i thought as the dmt started to warp my brain. without warning he sprang to his feet, shouting "i've got to go to work tommorow! i can't be doing this!" i tried to calm him, cradling his body in my arms and rubbing his head until he subsided, and then slowly began to giggle, becoming more and more manic until he was rolling around shreeking with joy and thanking me over and over again. by this point i was on such a low dark vibe myself i retreated foetus like under my covers, with the back of my brain feeling tense and painful. i heard him leave the room, and lay there for a while, did some deep breathing to ground myself and called him back in. he recounted his experience "...a tunnel..a pulple darkness, negative feelings, immersion followed by emregence..renewal, hilarity." i felt cheated of my own experience, as it had felt as if I had just been caught up in the end of his, which, as dmt is about as personal a trip you can hope for, left me feeling empty and vaguely depressed. however, i had in my possesion a third hit. being pretty into chasing synchronicities i deduced that the only reason i had three was beacaue the other one fell flat and i was being offered a second chance. i decied, albeit tentatively, that i had no choice other that to do it. still tripping of the 2cb, in the fading remnants of the last hit and metaphorically shitting myself i inhaled. and... dissolved. .............................nothingness.............an absense of everything..no body no matter just void. unspiritual, unphysical unfeeling unanything. utter perfection, pure khaos. "ohshitohshitohshit i've took to much gone to far i'm dead!!!!!!" i managed to open my eyes, the most terrifed i'd ever been, shaking, my heart beating at obscene rate, pounding in ears. i stared breathing manically, seeming unable to catch my breath, convinced i was having a heart attack. "phone an ambulance!" i gasped. my friend came rushing in, and made me take long breaths, amazed at the speed of my heart rate. gradually it slowed down, and he held me for a while while i lay exauhsted on the bed. "i'm not dead, i'm not dead I'M NOT DEAD!!!!!!!HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!" i tried to cry but couldn't, and had to make do with wailing and howling, which kind of worked. after a while i subsided and lay there with a grin the size of brighton tearing my face open. my excursion into the void has left me feeling happy and humble. my fascination with khaos and the occult has left the mantra 'be careful what you wish for", ringing in my ears; i found the void i had thought of so much, without any magickal/meditatative procedure and it scared the living shit out of me. i've heard 5meo-dmt has no personality, and experiences of this kind are quite common, can anyone enlighten me? and has anyone else tried combining 2cb with 5meo?
safe as fuck psychonauts xxx
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  • Re: the void

    05/02
    "ohshitohshitohshit i've took to much gone to far i'm dead!!!!!!"

    It amazes me how often this sentiment is shared. Love it.
    I'm also amazed at how soothing that particular terror is.

    There is nothing to fear in the spirit world except my own "shit".

    Yoda: Your weapons. You will not need them.
    Luke: What's in there?
    Yoda: Only that which you take with you.
    • Re: the void

      05/02
      Hahaaaaaaaaaaa Colin, you're not alone. I just now sorta relived my experience while reading about yours!

      Bzaowaiawoanamawaaaaiaaaaiaoooowaaaaaa.......ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss :)


      PUMA, word 2 ya! Those are some of my most cherished lines from my most cherished episode. How did you know, LOL?! I've used those same exact words in the same exact context many times before myself. As a matter of fact, earlier and elsewhere on tribe, I quoted Yoda as well.

      [insert Twilight Zone theme song here]
    • Re: the void

      12/15
      Edit :-


      Yoda: Your weapons. You will not need them.
      Luke: What's in there?
      Yoda: Only that which you can create for yourself'

      Much love

      Yoda
      • Re: the void

        12/15
        Love that quote Nobu! Would you believe I use this as an example in discussions?

        Small correction though. I think Yoda says: Only what you take with you.
        It boils down to the same message though.

        Luke takes his laser sword with him in the cave. In essence, he takes his fear with him, which manifests Vader (his fear). He fights Vader. Vader's mask pops off and reveals... Luke's face. Lesson: in taking his fear with him, he manifested a fight with himself. This is deeply meaningful, and applicable in all areas of life.

        Rule #1: do not (or try not to at least) to enter the unknown with fear.
  • Re: the void

    05/02
    So I see the Chaos sphere and was just wandering if you were a member of the IOT?
    • Re: the void

      05/03
      I am still very surprised out how much of an impact that little green puppet had on my 7 year old mind. His dialogue heavily molded my experience from then on through today.

      Yoda: You must unlearn what you have learned.

      Easier said than done.
      May the FORCE be with you.
      PUMA
      • Re: the void

        05/03
        PUMA, I can tell that little green puppet had a similar impact upon us both. I use all the same phrases to essentially relay Joseph Cambell's Power of Myth, in a nutshell. I was quite surprised to see you refer to the cave scene; quite possibly my most favourite scene of all of Star Wars. I didn't understand it at the time (I was 11 when I saw Empire Strikes Back), but boy, did that scene ever leave an impression upon my impressionable mind! Later, when I got into Buddhism, mysticism and the occult... and finally understood what that all meant, I drew upon that powerful impression again and again and again. That's what makes Star Wars (particularly Empire Strikes Back) so brilliant to me, for I know that I won't be impressed by any movie quite like I was with that one ever again.

        Luke's lesson, so fitting for this forum: the only thing you can ever run from is yourself, while whatever it is you try to run from, you'll inevitably face -- all the same.


        May the force be with you ;-)
        • Re: the void

          05/03
          Yes, I too am one whose 7 year mind was WARPED and EXPANDED by the power of Star Wars. That cave scene in Episode V was great! One of my faves too, but as w/ you only years after I saw it the first time.
  • Re: the void

    05/04
    In a sense it is a type of death. And, if resisted, might well bring about real damage.
    That said, it really is just a big cave. So big in fact, that many worship the cave,
    and call it The Physical World, The Demiurge.

    Now, with the shift of the guards, with the shift of the Aions, from Piscean
    to Aquarian, it makes much sense to let the old Demiurge go.
    The cave is getting increasingly weird, and falling to pieces as well.
    Some parts are bombing other parts to peace. To peaces.

    The void itself is nothing to fear. On the contrary, if you imagine the
    world you inhabit, as if being cleverly built upon an energetics shaped
    like a pulsing spheroidal toroid, then you will realize everything you
    experience, is grace to the underlying patterning of things, and those
    things innermost hinges on, the void.

    At the risk of oversimplifying, the void is that infinitesimally slim
    tunnel through the center of the toroidal lifeworld, in which you
    live and breathe and move about.

    Or so I like to think.
    • Re: the void

      05/04
      A modern-day Yoda, you are ;-)

      Cheers!


      Luke: I cannot believe it...

      Yoda: That is why you failed.
      • Re: the void

        05/04
        ::bowing in return to master dimi3::

        Seriously, thanks dimi3 for being here,
        thanks to all who've participated in this
        here thread, even if only reading.

        ::bowing to all other living masters here::

        If we get a glimpse of how equal we all
        are in the eyes of AllThatIs, how smooth
        and level the playing field, then our work here is
        almost done, and time for some serious play.
      • Re: the void

        05/04
        Luke: I won't fail you. I'm not afraid.
        Yoda: You will be. You will be.
        • Re: the void

          05/04
          BEB, that's *my* fave line. This is getting eerie!

          And it is achingly true. The physical world in which we
          are seemingly meandering, slouching through, is
          a scary place. Not only will we be very afraid most of
          the time, the cave is almost all but made of projected
          fear-stuff. Much of it canceling each other out in some
          sort of vigilant truce, yet always with the potential for
          violence and inducement of fear, of ample opportunities
          for either giving cause for fear, or fearing being on
          the receiving end.

          Life. Interesting!
          • Re: the void

            05/04
            Prt II of the new episodes revealed a power structure I felt in our reality but could not "see".
            The Senator, secondary to being a hidden, dark Emperor, had all facets of the structure batlleing each other. Each group believing they were fighting a noble cause. In the end, even the "good" Jedi were utilizing "evil" forces for their cause and were nearly destroyed.

            Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious. Good and Bad, Right and Wrong, are manmade concepts that the Universe doesn't recognize.
            When One believes One has One's shit figured out, One is usually furthest from. Fighting for it defeats you.
            PUMA
            "Try not. Do, or do not. There is no try." This one made perfect sense to a 7 year old.
            • Re: the void

              05/04
              Is Lucas trying to tell us something about the World today?
              • Re: the void

                05/04
                ... how often do we encounter the void on dmt..? I have started to wonder if the spice batch I have been sampling has some 5-Me-O-dmt in it; I seem to go right there, with no detours, or simply 'time' to hang around, 'elsewhere' ...

                I just recently heard myself saying; "Oh Oh .. done it Now ! .. as I held in 50mg vapourized into one complete lungful, instantly a loud buzzing and the dried-ants-on-my-tongue feeling, and then laying back ... it was simply ... brighter and brighter... aninhilation, squeezed through the birthcanal of my soul, This was the scary part !... folding back inward into the bright jellyfishflesh all around me .. white light . And, with no sense of where the room was anymore, eyes shut, I recall saying .." God I was sharing this with other people..? .. I subjected them to this..!? ... The fear was instinctual, but, 'practice ' had made it easier to endure .. or recall that I had better just go with the flow. It could be so intense you might think it was 'bad spice' ... or "there's been an accident ..!" ... once I slipped through the jellycanal of life, and it became so joyous ... "ahhh ... I did it ..! I'm coming back. I didn't speak during the void-out part ... it was 3- 5 min... I remember reaching up grabbing the air, as the ride down began , ... as if my arms would slow the floating descent , and by now I was laughing ... in orbit re-entry mode...

                Opening my eyes.. made it very clear how hard I was tripping ... no way I could get up ... my buddy looks over ... says " musta been a good one, eh ..?!" And this part was typical of dmt; the room was humming, my body had those 'shudders' run down one leg and across my face ... I took 20 minutes to feel like getting up ... and in 30 was at base line, stunned at how good it was ... how 'easier' it seems even if it is scary every time ...

                The zoom-into the void I keep experiencing, which is like 5-Me-O, is that just because of a hugely loaded bowl..?.. Or can 5-Me-O-dmt come from the residues in the bowl.? an oxidized side-product of partial combustion..?

                I think I must repeat the experiment ... strap >50 mg hyperspace rockets to my ego, ignite ... and letGo, letgo ... letgoletgoletgoletgo .... lletg..g ...goooooooooooo00 ~* (or elves saying ..." yesnoyesnoyesnoyesnoyesnoyesno.." wagging their fingers like a metronome that ticks away the last millisecond of time ... " yesnoyesnoyesnoyesnoyesnoyesno.." .. while I realize there's been NO accident, ... one last "YESNO" !... and it's time-to-go ... g ...God !
                • Re: the void

                  05/04
                  >" yesnoyesnoyesnoyesnoyesnoyesno.." wagging their fingers like a metronome that ticks away the last millisecond of time ... " >yesnoyesnoyesnoyesnoyesnoyesno.." .. while I realize there's been NO accident, ... one last "YESNO" !... and it's time-to-go ... g ...God !

                  You left out the Bzzzttttzttttztttttt Cellophane CrackleOfTheWorld BYE NOW EeeeeeeeeeeK..Zooommmmmmmmm!!!!! Part!
          • Re: the void

            05/04
            Courage is not the absence of fear, but the ability to function (as calmly as possible) while engulfed in the presence of your fear...
            • Re: the void

              05/04
              The capacity to have a calm discussion with the voices in your head while simultaneously NOT shitting your pants!
              Even though the cop standing in front of you is neither laughing with you nor at you!
              • Re: the void

                05/04
                amen trance! LOL

                I love the voices in my head, they keep me company.
                • This tread was about 5-Me-O ... so without intending to derail it, I'll keep it to "the void" .....

                  Dmt has changed for me, even though I don't do it often enough to prove anything, ... the void is there, quick ! The first 15-30 seconds after clearing the bowl, go like this, typically... the bong 'stretches' as i put it down, along with with the room, the cellophane krinkling buzzing steps in, and with eyes closed the baby snakes start zipping around... and then the fried-ants on my tongue makes me clench my mouth .. I use all my muscles to 'scrape' the ants off with my teeth, even .. ! It must look weird ... Instead one needs to go slack-jaw relaxed... drop the jaw and 'defocalize' ... go cross-eyed a bit .. normal 'focus' is like clenching ... yes relax ... wet warm and wonderfull... and after ... (..was I breathing..?) yes ... being scared was a silly skin I wore.... yes, ... just melt ... beingopeninsideout...

                  but if this initial 30 - 60 (?) seconds then goes staright to the void, no temporary visitations, no 'rooms' ... I have these questions:

                  - is it just dmt I'm smoking..?
                  - is it the sheer dose, 52 mg, cleared in one shot, that zooms meto the void..?
                  - or, one of my other 'favorite' questions; is the void suddenly there since my brain's number of receptors are 'different', at that time of day..!? Say I had fewer HT5 receptors than in the morning...? (being a night-time psychonaut, I don't know anything else but 'night launches' ...)

                  I presume psychonauts with more experience, who don't need diapers, could offer answers about dose-dependancy; when with dmt the 'breakthrough' experience... becomes a void-experience, what could be going on ? ... call it a voidthrough ... Maybe I am gaining experience, and the ride 'there' is just getting easier... ?

                  On another topic...

                  I have heard about a trick with hydrogen peroxide... Apparently a minute or 2 before launching with dmt, drinking a glass of juice that has had 1-2 drops of 3.5% H202 added (NOT concentrated >30%), will boost certain visual effects. This presumably is since your body and brain is temporarily getting a tiny oxygen boost from the H2O2 on the drink...! Anyone heard of this..?! (NOT the 30-35% food-industry stuff the 3.5% drug-store type of H202...!)

                  Getting ahold of a tank of oxygen, might be even better ..!? ... hmm ... learn how to gently hyperventilate first, ... or one could rig up an oxygen-booster on the bong ..! .. ? .. just like they have on the space shuttle! those liquid Oxygen tanks !
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Being in pitch darkness for a prolonged period adds greatly
                    to the ability to navigate back and forth.

                    The default way of using one's eyes, and the default
                    patterns and techs our minds use to interpret the
                    visual sensory data, eg saccades, micro-saccades,
                    saccade masking, are there in part to maintain
                    the illusion of normalcy.

                    There's no maya, there's no risk returning, there's no
                    risk traversing the realms.

                    Only over-emphasizing one of the realms, to the detriment
                    of another, makes it as if so.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    John, as always, you share much wisdom!

                    EK: " when with dmt the 'breakthrough' experience... becomes a void-experience, what could be going on ?"

                    Let's take the concept of Maya as a starting point; everything is illusion.
                    What does that mean?

                    Everything is in a state of vibration; oscillation. Our sensory feedback mechanisms construct the illusion of objects where there are only frequencies which stand out against a backdrop of infinite frequencies. What we don't see is supposedly not there, but in fact, it is. More so even, everything is there, and our perceptions of "presence" and "absence" are merely the result of a deductive process. Reality as we know it is the filtered out result which permits us to interact with certain frequencies in the foreground in order to relate with subjects and objects. But it is merely a sensory feedback mechanism which creates all these assumed relations. All of these are ultimately observation dependent. There is no reality in the absence of observation, states the Copenhagen school of quantum mechanics. And assuming that this is valid, as I do, then the world of quantum mechanics appears to confirm the ancient concept of Maya.

                    In a nutshell, reality results from a subjective observation which is the end product of a sensory filtering process. A neutrino particle for instance will not "recognise" an object but pass right on through its vibrational matrix, as if it's not even there. The object is there for subject (and consequently observation) dependent.

                    Now, when (5-MeO) DMT enters the brain, its 'neuronal' sensory filtering process is temporarily inhibited and the full spectrum is revealed to the inner mind all together. Circadian constraints are lifted even, and the sense of space (object-relation) consequently dissipates as well. With no filtering process in place, the full canvas of 'potential' reality (but this time non restricted by evolutionary external sensory mechanisms) interacts directly with the subconscious mind. In colour theory, an analogy could be drawn with the subtractive system in which white light represents the absolute (all that is) and a prism represents an interface (the mind) which breaks the spectrum down into its components, some of which are "sensible" (visible) while others remain hidden (invisible). In this case, the barely sensible frequencies of the (full) spectrum correspond to the outer limits of our (limited) visual sensory capacities. But the spectrum isn't comprised to a degree which merely corresponds to our bio-wetware limits of course. Nature has evolved many sensory mechanisms which peer into differening parts of the continuous spectrum. Continuous is an important distinction! Once our filtering mechanism subsides, through the release of an active dose of (5-MeO) DMT for instance, these limits no longer apply as the mind now interacts directly with, essentially, all that is (was and can ever be) without evolutionary mediation.

                    I think of a (5-Meo) DMT experience as a temporary feedback loop of the subconscious mind, bouncing about unrestricted in a 'vacuum' of subjective possibility, until the enzymes finally reinforce the 'standardised' (evolutionary) drawing board by calling all them straying neurons back to their original subject-mediating default positions ;-)

                    Just only one way to look at things, of course.
                    • How does reality keep seeming so "real"?
                      • reality, ah yes... an over-rated 'standard' me thinks ;-)


                        "Symbols get mistaken for reality - symbols can be manipulated hence 'reality' can be manipulated - messy situation develops. Reality is the new fiction they say, true is truer these days, truth is man-made. There are no facts, only interpretations."
                        --Friedrich Nietzsche

                        "Illusions commend themselves to us because they save us pain and allow us to enjoy pleasure instead. We must therefore accept it without complaint when they sometimes collide with a bit of reality against which they are dashed to pieces."
                        --Sigmund Freud

                        "We do not see things as they are, we see things as we are."
                        --The Talmud

                        "We have always sought explanations when it was only representations that we could seek to invent."
                        --Paul Valéry

                        "Perception is real even when it is not reality."
                        --Edward deBono

                        "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."
                        --Albert Einstein

                        "Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world."
                        --Arthur Schopenhauer

                        "Reality leaves a lot to the imagination."
                        --John Lennon

                        "You create your own reality... WOW!"
                        --Timothy Leary



                        And this one's so totally Yoda:

                        "Your beliefs can be like fences that surround you. You must first see them or you will not even realize that you are not free, simply because you will not see beyond the fences. They will represent the boundaries of your experience."
                        --SETH / Jane Roberts
                    • My elven kin find this to be true as well. I like the "feedback loop" reference. There is a really cool dialogue between Deepak chpra and Dr Robert Thurmon that touches on this. The conversation is also alot about vedanta and cleshas. The main premis behind the cleshas were that all human suffering comes from misknowing the self. They also were talking about how Braman projects itself through Maya or measurement loosely translated. This dialogue is available on netflix by the way, its called God and Buddha.
          • Re: the void

            12/15
            ooh maybe theirs a 7 year old being inspired by jar jar somewhere.....noooooooooo!



            heehee
            • Re: the void

              12/15
              Dimi

              Edit of Yodo

              By Nobunoni +

              Bliss +


              Yoda: Your weapons. You will not need them.
              Luke: What's in there?
              Yoda: Only that which you can create for yourself'

              Kind of holds more to picture .:)
            • Re: the void

              12/15
              jamie: "ooh maybe theirs a 7 year old being inspired by jar jar somewhere"

              I have seen them! ;-)


              Media, a power to be reckoned with.
              • Re: the void

                12/17
                To the person who was asking about their dmt batch, i do know that 5meo comes in much smaller doses. 50mg of dmt and 5meo dmt, would be a bit much, especially if the 5meo ratio was higher. if you have pure 5meo, a trip can be 5-20 mg.
                all i'll really say for now
                • Unsu...
                   

                  Re: the void

                  12/17
                  i can't stress this enough

                  smoking Ganja & meditating regularly ===> naturally encourages your brain to manufacture more nigerine and 5-MeO

                  <<< "Courage is not the absence of fear, but the ability to function (as calmly as possible) while engulfed in the presence of your fear..." >>>

                  I agree. FEARLESSNESS and COURAGE are two completely different things.

                  Courage is having balls and going right ahead into danger REGARDLESS of your fear.....
                  Fearlessness is the absolute non-existence of fear....fear has been destroyed forever.

                  word

                  PP
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: the void

                    12/19
                    <<< SAM: "this only happened within my own mind.' " >>>

                    <<< CYNTHIA: "are you sure about that? just curious..." >>>


                    Sure he / she is.... everything comes from thought, the world around you is nothing more than your thought forms at work...

                    So what about thoughts?

                    Thought comes from mind/ego.

                    What is mind/ego?

                    The ego is not a solid entity; there is no tangible element known as "the ego."

                    The ego is the continuous process of constantly re-creating yourself each moment of your life, from birth all the way to death.

                    The ego is transcended by keeping the vital force (prana) centered in the heart region and resting in the gaps between your breathing cycles.

                    eventually, you just automatically stop breathing, and go into higher planes of being/non-being.

                    bliss,

                    ProjecTpropheT
                    • om
                      om
                      offline 60

                      Re: the void

                      12/19
                      re-read the two posts above my head, bitches!!!!!!

                      the prophet from the projects be growing hydroponic not in a closet
                      under the great barrier reef
                      and trafficks the shit to hobbits!

                      lol
                    • Re: the void

                      12/19
                      Heh, that's kinda weird. As PP makes sense (that was fairly well stated BTW), his creator goes kinda nuts, and vs...

                      om, I thought we cleared that little issue with the alter EGO, didn't we? =))


                      PP (om), I have only one small issue with what you stated. I don't think thoughts have anything to do with ego, only mind.
                      • Unsu...
                         

                        Re: the void

                        12/19
                        dimi:3

                        for what reason do you think that OM and I are the same person?

                        ???

                        PP
                        • Re: the alts

                          12/20
                          > for what reason do you think that OM and I are the same person?

                          That's already been established to anyone who was paying any attention (see mix-up of signatures). So, please...

                          Besides, I knew you (PP) most probably were an alt of om when you first started posting here: exact same approach in dismissing the value of dmt whilst aggressively promoting cannabis. Same style (or lack there of), same attitude, same line of logic (or lack there of), posting in tandem (often supportive of the other), no personal pictures in profile while admitting that you're *both* from India... I'm not really interested in discussing this any further, if that's all right. Cute btw, adding yet another alt to the mix. I might have to consider booting (((y'all))) if you really insist ;-)
                          • Re: the alts

                            12/20
                            "dismissing the value of dmt whilst aggressively promoting cannabis." ..that is silly... almost as silly a supporting yourself with Alt !
                            • Re: the alts

                              12/20
                              MrOneness

                              "dismissing the value of dmt whilst aggressively promoting cannabis." ..that is silly... almost as silly a supporting yourself with Alt !

                              Get a life Alt !

                              Nobunoni +

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