DMT and 2012...what do you think?

topic posted Thu, November 24, 2005 - 3:09 PM by  Unsubscribed
dmt is somehow alerting us and trying to prepare those of us for the 2012 date?

just a thought that occurred to me today...
any thoughts/experiences that would coincide with this?

posted by:
  • YES.

    It takes you far beyond 2012...
    or perhaps far before...
    or is it all the same?

    Through the Omega point, where time becomes a loop...?

    To me, DMT serves as a 'conscious connector' to this type of 'tractor-point' at the end of time, "glittering in hyperspace" (and casting shadows of itself throughout time and space...) as Terence McKenna put it.

    It is comforting to know that divine harmony exists right now.
  • J
    offline 33
    i question the hype about 2012. are we not chasing new age 'hope' like a greyhound chasing a rabbit - eternally out of reach. who is to say any one moment is more important than any other. does one not defy the NOW? all is achievable in the present moment.

    sure there are amazing revelations and theories that point like a canon to 2012, perhaps it some kind of climax in the continuem of time; i want to include a balance opinion though.
    • J
      offline 33
      2012 has been descibed as 'zero point'.

      matter at 'zero point' behaves like a superconductor, whereby all molecules have a party and link up to become one giant molecule. DMT, as i understand behaves like a superconductor.

      i'll let you make your own connections.
      • Unsu...
        wow, cool thanks for the thoughts so far. My thoughts so far , well I haven't actually experienced DMT .. yet, I am preparing myself now, but it keeps finding me.. lots since BM this year. So I am doing my research and anxiously/nervously awaiting my time .

        I also don't really believe the hype around 2012 either, but it seems like there might be a connection with the stories I have read and heard about the few ppeople who travel with DMT meet/make connections with our counterparts? 'out there'? and many say they are trying to show us something, or tell us something or study us as if in preparation for something.. its obviously not random its like those few who go here are 'messengers'.. no wrong word, but are getting upgraded, and having info downloaded, and minds opened.. but we can only handle a few minutes of it.. so its like they are moving us along and helping us go forward in small increments that we can assimilate..

        thats it , my thoughts so far.. I'll keep you posted on further developments in my journey...
        • Every moment is the alpha omega start/end of the universe. All is love. 2012 stuff and keeping track of time hurts my head to think about and closes down my here and now manifestations of love. My DMT expiriences debunked my beliefs in there being more than one moment of eternal time.
          By setting your hopes and dreams on a far off date we don't accomplish the revolutionary zero point.
          • J
            offline 33
            "By setting your hopes and dreams on a far off date we don't accomplish the revolutionary zero point. "

            cooly put.

            on a differnt time line. if you eperience the realm beyond space/time, hey you can access 2012, or that zero point ,when ever you want. if 2012 is the all encompassing enlightening point, if you existed say in the dark ages, are you doomed? you have to wait ages to get to the guru of moment. it would be too much for my patients.
        • Firefly,

          Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Very interesting possibilities. Without specifically alluding to 2012, the rest of your post alligns very well with my dmt experience. They definitely want to, with me at least, put me through an "apprenticeship" for lack of a better word. However, as you say, it is so fast, and it is also so astounding, that it is very difficult to integrate so much in such a small amount of time. But, as McKenna has said, I think the trick is to slowly familiarize yourself with the space so that you can bring more and more back each time, and spend less and less time overwhelmed by awe.
          • I think zero point was 2000. I do agree that dmt takes you far beyond 2012. For me, zero point was 1995. For 2012, I think was one of Terence's fans or conference attendees idea.
            • the problem being is that no one has a real idea how the differnt calenders sinc up and it is eather 2012 or 2024 but i find it hard to commit to a linear time line my perception is mad flexy and skips around alot
              • It doesn't seem to really matter. I think 2012 is a metaphor for an awakening that is going to happen, if we believe the time is 2012, then it is, and then that is when that collective awakening will needlessly take place. Perhaps the great curse of a sense of time imposed since birth also comes with the gift of syncronization. Although we don't know when we started, we do think we know when we ARE right now, and that intent of mind is the powerful part
            • I was wrong. 2012 is right. Murder is wrong.
              • 2612 is more correct. That's the end date of this world age.
                • <
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Time is merely an impression of two points of energy within a linear frame of mind. This linear perspective cannot persist in hyperspace, thus time as we know it dissolves. Now that I recall, Terence McKenna refers to a "transcendental object at the end of time"... My perception of this is that it exists outside of time-space, thus, always-everywhere. This is what the 5-MEO-DMT experience represents to me personally.

                    Regarding time-frames: 2012 represents a point of excess; yin-yang transition. From what I gather, we should be "in the clear" by 2040 when the new yin cycle commences. While stating this, I do keep in mind that we live in a holographic thought-based reality. Those who prepare for disaster will meet disaster...

                    Great conversation, keep it going.

                    • Unsu...
                      What about the the lessons of 'recapitulation? Does this not point towards a trancendence of some kind? (in my mind it does) The trajectory of biological evolution has always been higher. The fish purposely grew those legs to get on shore to climb those trees. During psychedelic sessions, one can sometimes acess these different aspects of "The conscious" (our past and future) Maby DMT can allow one acess up to the nexus point, which might just be 2012.
                      If light is something of a wave and partical always going back and forth, and every thing is light, then maybe the wave side of light is actually the dream side of "the conscious, and 2012 might be a convergence of the two sides of light (light having no anti-particle making it timeless already)
                      This could be the angel body or as Mckenna said "the shedding of the monkey vessel that carried us up to this point.
                      I dont really>>
                      • You'd think that a crowd doing this much psychdels. would have figured out that time is an now
                        • Looking past the illusion of time, at what many people on the earthly side of the chrysanthemum perceive or refer to as history, I think it worthy to pay attention to the logarithm of time that Terence McKenna threw down in In Search of the Original Tree of Knowledge. After analyzing the pattern of the logarithm matched up with historical events, he speaks of what I like to refer to as a shift at 2012. A drastic tide in the rithm. What form that takes, well, are we going to drop the ball, or reset the compass?
                        • Unsu...
                          yeah no shit huh.. it definitly is a man-made illusion to try and make order and sense out a a chaos univers.. so funny.. linear trained minds..trying to go holograophic.. the juxtaposition sometimes is just too much. sparks flying off it.
                          • Unsu...
                            illusion? amen to that. it's tough to make the transition to the quantum holographic mindset when so many ahve been programmed since birth to reside logic and linear thought. even reading this is rooting you in the left brain as the alphabet is linear (compared to something like heiroglyphics which is gestalt & uses BOTH hemispheres for an "all at once" understanding.)
                            i highly recommend Leonard Schlain's book"the Alphabet vs. the Goddess" to anyone interested in this idea
                    • J
                      offline 33

                      "Time is merely an impression of two points of energy within a linear frame of mind."

                      can you expound on this concept of time. something i currently read...

                      "all creation is due to polarity. every birth occurs through this interpenertration of positive and negetive, light and dark, male and female, god and godess, electricity and magnetism...."

                      does this relate to your viewpoint ?
                      • Unsu...
                        i don't know about interpenetration, but interpretation maybe. I work with electromagnetism.. we are beings of light and we are physically and (energetically ) electromagnets...

                        now as far as time goes, I believe it to be occurring from a central point, radiating outwards, not linearly..( Forgive me, I have not expressed this in written word, ands maybe only once verbally) but I believe all time is occurring simultaneously, like the past present and future are all here now, and we are only conditioned to 'see' events occurring in the present in our trained time frame.. but I believe that right next to us, energetically/electromagnetically , there are WORLDS! past present future.. and beings from all over.. now this is different from what we are 'allowed' to see.. so being an impression of two points of energy- well yes, observed energy is the only way we can stop it from being probable, or from moving, so yes I guess that would be the case, and given that linear minds are observing and interpreting...

                        just random prosaic thought...
                        • I think time is light and light is time, and with the transformation from monkey body into light, itself, time evaporates and vaporizes and melts and dissolves, at the same time that you dissolve, melt, and vaporize, and evaporate. In theory, the speed of light is never reached, but in actuality with n,n-DMT and MAO-I-A, the impossible becomes possible, and you reach the speed of light, becoming light itself, shedding your monkey body like a snake sheds it's skin, and melting down, as Alex Grey has put it, into the Universal Mind Lattice, everywhere and nowhere, at once, where all time is co-present and passage of time, and seconds, and minutes, and hours, and days, and years, and decades, and scores, and centuries, and millenia, and eons, and billions of years, et cetera become meaningless.

  • i think you're completely on the right track. Actually i can't say i THINK so, it's just sort of somethin you know, you know?
    • Unsu...
      The beginning and end are something there already acheived,,, yes. Time is not an illusion.
      • We are

        In every moment cocreating, recreating, procreating ourselves.
        It is perhaps more accessible, if you think about the 21 Dec 2012, as a due date.

        What I do know, is that we are always tunneling through our own spacetime continuum, according to our chosen spin.

        There's a gathering of sorts, around that date.
        What that date is - is up to us.

        I believe in us.
        • Re: We are

          I LOVE YOU GUYS!!!
          • Unsu...

            Re: We are

            has anyone thought that maybe this "end of time" thing could be something as simple yet complex as teleportation becoming viable as a means of transportation?
            • Re: We are

              Ok, well, add another possibility onto the pile.
              • Re: We are

                gee folks some of this stuff sounds alot like the right wing bible thumper retoric and don't hold your breath wating to shed the monkey body and exp the rapture shit is and will always be going down the frequince might in or decreace but just ride the waves with your eyes and arms open and try to pick up the peoples around you and flow.
                • Re: We are

                  maybe the 2012 is just disinformation by the secret government to keep us distracted or busy waiting for 2012. i think we should'nt think about it cuz it stops us from doing what we can now. and how many of u guys have had a dmt experience? how do i do it? lol i feel like such a noob here
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: We are

                    meet someone like me
                    • Re: We are

                      2012 is not disinformation. It is correct.

                      • Re: We are

                        The Terence on here is an imposter.
                        • Re: We are

                          Check your star charts
                          • Re: We are

                            Whatever happened to Terence's computer? His Mac?
                            • "The Terence on here is an imposter."

                              Please clarify.

                              Regarding Terence's computer: is it missing? ;-)

                              Ah yes, theology... It's so fun isn't it?

                              pure brilliance:

                              and on the subject of time and reality:

                              I am so tempted to write a book right now it's not even funny, but I'm going to put my best effort forth to try to contain myself, this time ;-))
                              • Unsu...
                                meow meow!

                                thanks for quoting my poetry there, dimitri. you are good like the goodness.

                                thanks also for the holographic reality article. i'm writing about that in my book right now, nice to have a scientific theory to support it. interesting to compare it to jeremy narby's hypothesis about dna recieving and transmitting light to and from all other dna in the universe when triggered by dmt or nicotine. similar ideas.

                                my book is about light and how, on all dimensions, it represents the unity of all that is on all levels and times and nonexistences. so, oh so appropos to run across this thread.

                                as for this whole time is an illusion thing... well let's start with a quote from this thread:

                                I think time is light and light is time, and with the transformation from monkey body into light, itself, time evaporates and vaporizes and melts and dissolves,


                                i think the term monkey body is limiting. time to step up a level and recognize the incredible sophistication, beauty and potential contained within these precious bodies which we are. i feel that it's more useful to recognize the intrinsic interconnectedness of the body and soul, the mind and heart, and all these parts of ourselves. this is all so beautiful, and the more of ourselves we can integrate into who we are, from this body and out into the farthest reaches of interstellar forever, the more we can evolve.

                                i prefer to see our evolution not as a realizing that we've been living a lie all this time, but as an expanding of the truth we've always known. i prefer to trust in the paradox of time, existing and not existing (now).

                                2012 is coming quick. there are cycles, there are twists and turns, there are beginnings and endings morphing into their next transformations as beginnings. the universe is made of stories. 2012 is a next level. the story continues, just with humans relating to it differently than they used to. humans: us universes, us cells in the great body, us winks in the long history of expansive forever. of course the story is all here and now. of course there is a yesterday and tomorrow. of course there is still room for expansion... into what we already are?


                                (three times paradox)

                                we are in for a wiiiild ride, my friends ;)

                                - silver
                                • Unsu...
                                  • J
                                    offline 33
                                    a metephor i am relating to the time concept is like doing a course/study in engerneering, journalism, whatever.... we dip ourself into time the space/time continuum as a means of focusing on a specific area of creation. so we isolate ourself from the "allthatis", and when we have completed the course, or when the TIME is up, we graduate back into timlessness with the diploma of experience behind us.

                                    isloating ourself from the infinity could be looked in the way of creators means of generating a specific pattern. you could say we are pioneering pattern generators adding our ingreadents into to the super-salid of "allthatis"

                                    eat that!
                                    • Unsu...
                                      that's pure genius, jon. very very nicely said.
                                      • Unsu...
                                        • Unsu...
                                          oh but jon, i just realized.

                                          isolating ourselves from infinity is impossible by its very nature! infinity is not quantitative - you can't have a portion of infinity that you're separate from... get it? i am infinite, you are infinite... the infinite is infinite. you can't really get away from the infinite... can you?


                                          in other words, to pack the punch to my previous point, we are constantly evolving from one state of infinite perfection to the next. we are re:mixing to perfection what is already perfect. we are expanding on what we've already got, not eliminating old views and replacing them.

                                          does that make sense? i hope i'm explaining it properly.

                                          that's what dmt is all about, right? evolution. so our relationship to time evolves, our relationship to ourselves in relationship to time also evolves! i would call 2012 something of a tipping point, where people all simultaneously "get it", and time shifts on a level of mass consciousness or perception.

                                          cause of course, any one of us can get blasted into hyper dimensions full of dmt elves who all share our enlightened beliefs about deep time and such, but we have to come back to the human world, where mainstream culture is not designed around these ideas, and we have to be integrated iwth it in order to survive. in other words, our deepest experience of deep time (or non-time or whatever), is dependent on a sharing of this understanding among all of us here in gaia.

                                          plants and animals are way ahead of us on this one (in a less complex way). but of course, why separate ourselves from plants and animals anyway - why separate any of ourselves from each other? we are nature's attempt at becoming self-reflectively conscious. we've done it, as gaia, we have achieved this conscious awareness of ourselves as a whole body. but our mission now is to take that new tool of this wonderful cerebral cortex, and develop it so that we can be integrated with the inherent wisdom we've had since before we developed consciousness.

                                          it's the ultimate leap in consciousness. so maybe 2012 is just the time when we all finally figure it out together, and suddenly common reality can shift to accomadate that new view, and yeah! we get to live in another dimension!

                                          • Unsu...
                                            oh but let me correct the first line of the last paragraph. i'd say, it's not so much teh ultimate leap in consciousness as...

                                            the NEXT latest greatest ultimate leap in consciousness.

                                            (coming soon... even way more evolved levels from full 2012 collective consciousness of all beings!)

                                          • but that is of course assuming that infinity actually exists, rather than just being a mathematical concept.
                                            • Unsu...
                                              hey ya'lls need to check out a book called EarthShift by Judith is a story about this very thing- outlined by Silver.. its pretty cool. I had so many massive realizations and 'connection of the holographic dots' that I was in tears - that laughing, crying,in pure hope and seeing the whole big picture state.. really awesome. Its been happening a lot more lately, and "I weren't born yesterdey" (:

                                              but it references all of what I am reading here and in many other like-minded tribe discussions..
                                              the question is.. was Judith doing dmt???I very much wonder..
                                              and still can't wait for my journeys..its definitly getting closer..holographically..NOT linearly..



                                              • Thanks for the tip FireFly. That sounds like something to check out.

                                                Biology taught me that all living systems are interdependent, and that this interdependence relies on self-sustainment of the ecology, both in its components and as a whole. Biology also taught me that all systems are engaged in a constant 'balancing' act; that they exist in a state of flux. Cell division, mutation, metamorphosis... The regulatory mechanisms which make all of these things possible, as well as any other type of (re-)cycling of energy within the known universe, are all based on mathematical principles. Not to say that we understand all of these principles, but most seem to agree that the universal dynamic as a whole is based on logic.

                                                So I say yes, Silverbirch invokes the ring of truth.

                                                We are currently discovering, through maturing scientific models, that everything indeed connects at some level. Quantum mechanical entanglement at the subatomic level seems to confirm what mystics have known all along: that there is a universal dynamic which ultimately binds everything, and communicates through everything, and that this "it" appears to be infinite; the common notion of the All That Is or "god" throughout the religions of the world.

                                                The universe is expanding, and ongoing studies of nutrinos are indicating that it will continue to do so, contrary to previously hypothesized contraction-models. In fact, there is no evidence at all to support that the universe is finite, and that it is going to run out of energy at any given point... As far as I'm concerned, the second law of thermodynamics, which states that the universe, and everything in it, is running down or dying (entropy) has already been disproven.

                                                Please consider the work of Ilya Prigogine, a brilliant Belgian chemist who won the Nobel Prize in 1977 for his theory of dissipative structures. Through complex mathematics, Prigogine disproved the second law of thermodynamics in relation to biological systems. Prigogine proved that biological systems, including man, can grow rather than dissipate through disease processes followed by recovery.


                                                What reason is there to doubt the infinite?
                                                • Oh, and I almost forgot to mention the good news:

                                                  Despite the Bush (mis-)administration's persistent efforts to derail it and a last minute game of Russian roulette (played in part by the Russians), the Kyoto protocols are holding! Additionally, talks are underway to extend their expiration beyond the original 2012 mark. It seems to me that the world as a whole is waking up to the task at hand.

                                                  I hold great hope for our future.
                                                  • One thing that I find very cool,
                                                    is that the very nasty things,
                                                    that some of the meanies do right now,
                                                    works to further accelerate the process
                                                    of collective awakening.

                                                    This systemic, interdependent fact,
                                                    is now a dawning realization among
                                                    the meanies themselves, and has proceeded
                                                    to split them in fractioning groups.

                                                    Some want to change sides, covertly,
                                                    as is their preferred MO,
                                                    some just want to leave the planet,
                                                    through any means available,
                                                    and some want to duke it out,
                                                    to the bitter end.

                                                    That last group, and their actions,
                                                    contributes the most to the collective awakening.

                                                    Btw, this is not opinion, this can be modelled,
                                                    through systems thinking.

                                                    To give you some further glimpses from the Earth kaleidoscope:

                                                    The more the meanies stages nasty things,
                                                    the more tightly we are headed for an intense
                                                    awakening, and closer to the due date of 21 Dec 2012.

                                                    The more we, the people, the collectively sentient part of
                                                    the bionoosphere on this planet, hold in our hearts the notion of interdependent inclusivity, compassion and forgiveness, the wider the tunnel through which we will transition through, each and everyone of us, in accordance with our own spin.

                                                    Three equally valid paths through:

                                                    If you feel you are slightly more attuned to body,
                                                    than to spirit, more on the root chakra than the crown chakra,
                                                    then shake it baby, move that body, and dance your way through.

                                                    If you feel more crown than root attuned, then watch your grievances in your mind melt, like tears in rain. Meditation furthers.

                                                    If you feel slightly balanced, then go out and spread the good news that is yourself. Love your fellow sentient beings for a brief spell. Share the love.

                                                    For those of you who want to hedge the bets - then be my guest - do all three ! :-)

                                                    If, perchance, you are one of the meanies reading this -
                                                    then please - dont accelerate further - we are already on perfect track as it is - no need to be in a hurry to the big shindig - we'll get there :-)
                                                • "What reason is there to doubt the infinite?"

                                                  The fact that it is not to be found anywhere.

                                                  That is reason to doubt, not to disbelieve entirely.
                                                  • Very true Kevin, steps of the dance, simultaneously as if coreographed by us dancers, as well as being turns we participate in.

                                                    Sometimes we need to slow the dancing, and/or take a breather, in which case it is timely with observing the facts.

                                                    At other times - we dance.
                                                  • Re: theology

                                                    You are correct, infinity within the context which I assume you're reasoning, is in fact not "provable". But, does this then mean that you will forever "doubt"?

                                                    The argument falls within the realm of theology. It is of a similar character as the concept of consciousness where conventional science encounters a paradox: consciousness cannot be observed from the outside... Curiously, most people seem to believe that they are conscious.

                                                    "If the brain were so simple we could understand it,
                                                    we would be so simple we couldn't."
                                                    --Lyall Watson

                                                    The theological question is this: Is the universe open or closed?

                                                    Essentially life has to adapt as the universe grows older, changing itself to be able to survive when the stars grow cold. If the universe is open, there will be plenty of time to work in, but energy will become very scarce. Dyson has shown that a finite amount of energy is enough to guarantee infinite survival if it is spent sufficiently slowly (this is called the Dyson scenario).

                                                    On the other hand, if the universe is closed, it will recollapse into a big crunch after a finite time, becoming hotter and hotter. Life has to adapt and restructure itself to these conditions, and if intelligent beings accelerate the speed of their mental processes accordingly they can even experience a subjective infinite time during the last stages of the collapse (this is called the Tipler scenario).

                                                    A third possibility is that the universe may be open or closed, but new baby universes branch off due to natural or artificial causes, and intelligent life can survive indefinitely by migrating into new domains as the old become uninhabitable (this is commonly called the Linde scenario).

                                                    And so, life moved ever outward into infinite possibilities and yet all things were perfect and finished in every single moment, their end attained...

                                                    But how is it possible?
                                                    How could it be possible that everything is really all right?

                                                    How could it not be possible?
                                                    • Re: theology

                                                      There's a multiverse option available,
                                                      where we can posit ourselves as if intrinsic
                                                      within this particular manifestation.

                                                      There will be a brief glimpse of non-time
                                                      available, around the due date,
                                                      where everyone so willing,
                                                      will experience this,
                                                      and being presented with
                                                      the choice of re-collapsing into
                                                      the particular aspect of multiverse,
                                                      of choice and spin.

                                                      The earthly schools of theology still suffers, IMO,
                                                      from trying to establish themselves as spectator sports.
                                                      Real theology is much more full frontal experiential participation.
                                                      Although please dont tell this to any high priest,
                                                      as it is usually perceived as a turn-off for their particular branch. :-)
                                                    • Re: theology

                                                      "You are correct, infinity within the context which I assume you're reasoning, is in fact not "provable". But, does this then mean that you will forever "doubt"?"

                                                      It seems likely that I will. Is there something wrong with that? I have come to grips with the fact that there are unanswerable questions, and I'm OK with that.

                                                      "It is of a similar character as the concept of consciousness where conventional science encounters a paradox: consciousness cannot be observed from the outside... Curiously, most people seem to believe that they are conscious."

                                                      Except that I can experience what I consider to be consciousness. I do not seem to be able to directly apprehend the experience of infinity however. Nor can I think about it. Any thoughts will be finite.

                                                      "And so, life moved ever outward into infinite possibilities"

                                                      Maybe. I prefer the idea of finite but boundless, which seems more reasonable to me, but hey, that's just me.
                                                      • Re: theology

                                                        What a fascinating thread, you three rock!

                                                        I'm feel a little sad that you have come to grips with something that isn't real in your assertion that there are unanswerable questions. I realize that it is just symantics, but I'd like to pose a question or two...
                                                        As parts of a whole (if you believe that's what we are), could it be possible that what are at this time unanswerable to you may not be to the rest of the whole? Or possibly right timing for you at this time?

                                                        I sometimes feel that the information I receive is being handled by me on a different level than what I perceive with my 6 senses and I realize that this knowledge is something that is for future use and assimilation. As for infinity, you are so smart and I feel like I'm stating the obvious, but I find it rather startling that someone I see as pretty advanced, based on your writings, that you don't see that the infinite cannot be grasped with the questioning mind, but only upon reaching the meditative state of no-mind.

                                                        I apologize if that sounds like it's coming from any place other than the infinite love that I know in the presence of Spirit.

                                                        But then hey, if your doubt does not lead to fear and all of it's unfortunate tentacles, then I say nothing is wrong with that and you should do and think what is right for you.

                                                        Thanks for the great far

                                                        • Re: theology


                                                          Thanks for the response. I am assuming that most of it is aimed toward me, and I would be happy to share my feelings with you on the matter, although I must admit that I am unclear on a few of your points.

                                                          "I'm feel a little sad that you have come to grips with something that isn't real in your assertion that there are unanswerable questions."

                                                          I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean by this ("that isn't real in your assertion "), but in my current philosophy it is incredibly clear that there are things that are incapable of being known. Let me give you an example. A very simple one: you can never know anybody else's experience other than your own. But, also, there are an astronomical number of things (not infinite) that cannot be predicted because there are too many variables involved for any person to keep in mind at one time. This just seems common sense to me (for now).

                                                          "As parts of a whole (if you believe that's what we are),"

                                                          Well, that's one level of what I currently believe, though it is far from the full story.

                                                          "could it be possible that what are at this time unanswerable to you may not be to the rest of the whole?"

                                                          If I understand this correctly you are asking if it is possible that there are questions that I cannot currently answer that are not unanswerable by the entire universe. If this is indeed your question, I'm afraid I really can't answer it, as I literally CANNOT "speak" from the perspective of the whole universe. But, sure, it's possible. But, I don't think that that means that I personally will be able to answer ANY question in the future.

                                                          "I sometimes feel that the information I receive is being handled by me on a different level than what I perceive with my 6 senses and I realize that this knowledge is something that is for future use and assimilation."

                                                          I certainly agree that this occurs, and it is even incredibly important. Your subconscious is constantly taking in and sorting through data that is not available to your conscious mind. However, I still don't think this implies that any question is answerable.

                                                          "As for infinity,...I find it rather startling that someone I see as pretty advanced, based on your writings, that you don't see that the infinite cannot be grasped with the questioning mind, but only upon reaching the meditative state of no-mind."

                                                          I do agree that infinity is incapable of being grasped by the questioning mind, but I am not convinced that the state of no-mind, as I've experienced (or non-experienced) it implies infinity. I have certainly had the impression, after returning from it, of having the state of no-mind, and I certainly don't think that anything can be "grasped" in that state, nor did it imply infinity. What it did imply was beyond concept. Infinity is just a concept. And thus my current impression of infinity...

                                                          "I apologize if that sounds like it's coming from any place other than the infinite love that I know in the presence of Spirit."

                                                          It absolutely doesn't. Though I would consider it your own personal, finite love. Which I don't think lessens it in any way.

                                                          "But then hey, if your doubt does not lead to fear and all of it's unfortunate tentacles, then I say nothing is wrong with that and you should do and think what is right for you."

                                                          Indeed it does not. In fact, I am one of the most optomistic people I am aware of in all the world. And doubting the infinite, of all things, is among the least likely things to cause fear in me.

                                                          "Thanks for the great far"

                                                          Hey, thank you for your input!


  • I guess DMT on its own is a way powerful substance and yes i tend to agree its preparing not as hung up on 2012 as i was earlier in the year...not sure why...i think too much prohesizing and leap frogging can shift us out of the now...DMT is possibly modifying us to enable us to see more clearly in the now and to lift our vibrations to wuthering sure by 2012 we will have stopped talking about DMT and will be blown away by other processes or discoveries of the mind.
    • Roughly: Hologram= 2 lazers of differing frequencies trained on one point. Resulting "white noise", or distortions generates an image, that, when halved, is the exact same image, half again, same, etc. Fractals. Am I understaning this correctly?

      My Guess: Light body Hologram= Mind and Spirit trained on one point. Resulting "white........blah, blah, BODY, blah, blah.....Fractals!

      Thats how "Shamans" can access any body, time, element, whenever... I guess.

      Please don't ask where the Mind and Spirit aim from. Haven't "seen" that yet. Maybe that whole tube taurus {donut} thing. My Body aims my Mind and Spirit at my Body aims my Mind and Spirit at my........Damn Fractals!!!
      Ride On.
      Love. Grattitude. Respect.
      • Not to be argumentative but,

        I'm pretty sure infitnity is in there somewhere.
        • Please, feel free to be argumentative. Just do a better job of it, if you wish to persuade me of your position. "Pretty sure" is not very persuasive or argumentative, just a difference of opinion.
          • infinity is implied in fractals, I was being fececious.
            • Yes, infinity is implied in fractals. But, as I pointed out, infinity, as with fractals, could very well just be a mathematical concept, rather than an actual reality. There is no doubt that there are "fractal-like" processes and occurences to be found everywhere, but I am not yet convinced that it isn't only to a finite degree.

              as quoted from wikipedia:

              "Because a fractal possesses infinite granularity [ability to be divided ever smaller], no natural object can be a fractal. However, natural objects can display fractal-like properties across a limited range of scales."

              This seems to me to be the most reasonable position based on my experience thus far, even including my experiences with DMT, etc., though I am not firmly wed to this idea and am willing to be convinced otherwise.
              • This is quite probably what the minute quantities of DMT naturally present in our physical bodies have as one effect - an inclination towards a little willingness.

                On the other hand, I think there's an underlying pattern,
                nadis, piezolectric resonances and other things, that serves as the foundation upon which the chemistry adds their distincts notes/notions.
                • Is a hologram considered to be a "natural object"? They are not finite.
                  Sacred Geometries exist whether we have Math as a language to describe it. It is not finite.
                  I believe in infinity. To not, generates infinite doubt.

                  Some of these discussions become oxymorons. The only way to prove a point is to disprove it.

                  We rely to heavily on our spoken/written cyst_m.

                  Not for long my brothers.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    I guess I just have a hard time believing there's a brick wall at the edge of the universe with a sign that says "The End".
                    • "I guess I just have a hard time believing there's a brick wall at the edge of the universe with a sign that says "The End"."

                      Indeed. That is a hard one to swallow. That's why I like the idea of "finite but boundless", as proposed by Einstein. In that sense there is not an end of the universe. The farthest point from your eyes in a "finite but boundless" universe is the back of your own head, just as if you keep travelling in one direction around the Earth, you eventually come back to the same point.

                      • "laws break there rules at a quantum quark level. it apears so, but what if matter just changes gear/modes and experience a quantum leap/evolution to say "emotional matter" (or physical to non physical), in which the formless matter still obide to the means of the golden mean."

                        "it's emotion which ebbs and flows in a magnetic golden ratio type ocean full of PHIlosophical spirals."
                        • J
                          offline 33
                          "laws break there rules at a quantum quark level. it apears so, but......."

                          ah puma i recall those words from somewhere ?!

                          from kevin "my doubt is finite...", "the only way to prove a point is to disrove it"

                          here's a point. how do you descibe a phi spiral which by its very nature travels eternaly into itself, or out of itself. the point being there is no POINT - because it is never reached. the sacred spiral geometry just carries on and on and on navigating its lucid spiraled tenticle forever. in number form - well an end number has never been traped/caged to my knowledge - thats relating to the phi ratio (which very much on intimate terms with the PHI spiral)
                          • "how do you descibe a phi spiral which by its very nature travels eternaly into itself, or out of itself. the point being there is no POINT - because it is never reached."

                            Yes, but that was my very point. A phi spiral is also just a mathematical concept. There is no example in nature of an infinite golden spiral, nor has anyone ever or will anyone ever draw an infinite phi spiral. They may draw or find a spiral that has the proper proportions, but it will always stop at some point outward, and it will always have an origin. It is only hypothetically that it can continue forever. Not only that, but it is impossible to even conceive of it continuing infinitely. Eventually your mind will just reach a point where the difference between infinity and REALLY, REALLY BIG becomes almost insignificant to the human mind.
                        • "laws break there rules at a quantum quark level."

                          I wouldn't say that they break the rules. I would just say that we can't explain the rules well enough yet at this point.

                          "it apears so, but what if matter just changes gear/modes and experience a quantum leap/evolution to say "emotional matter"

                          Ok. What if? What if not? What would this imply to you, and why do you find it appealing, and what evidence do you have to make you consider that it is so (note: I consider personal anecdotal evidence perfectly reasonable).

                          "it's emotion which ebbs and flows in a magnetic golden ratio type ocean full of PHIlosophical spirals."

                          Interesting quotes, but ultimately (to me) unenlightening. What do they mean? What are they implying? Do they somehow imply infinity? Are you claiming that emotion has it's own quanta or that everything breaks down to emotion? Are you claiming that emotion is magnetic? Are you claiming that emotion folows some sort of golden spiral pattern, and if so, what is the medium? I guess, I really don't understand the intention of these quotes. Perhaps you could explain further, in your own words.
                          • J
                            offline 33
                            i am not really making a point here. i am relating this as i find it really interesting. emotions are magnetic in nature - natures magnets lol. one says

                            i gravitate towards you
                            i am attracted/repelled by you, situations and things ect

                            thats the effect emotions have on one, they PUSH and PULL on one (natures magnets), tug and twist your heart - love dubbing through magnetism.
                            • J
                              offline 33
                              electricity and magetism are interchangelble demontrated very simply in electromagnets, electric motors, dynamoes, generators and the human motor - the heart. they all operate off the same principle. consider an electric current travelling through a coil produces magnetism within its coiled serpent. the reverse is true; a magnet generates an electric current in a nearby conductor.

                              you generate feelings and currents in a person standing next to you, such as "you electrify me" or "you hypnotise me", or you pull into someone.

                              a way i have of thinking/clarifying things for myself is

                              emotion = e-lectrical-motion
                              emotion = e-lectron-motion
                              emotion = e-mail-motion (mailing energy)

                              • J
                                offline 33
                                2012 could be related as, using my own terminology, a SPINGboard moment. a convergents point that can be used as a catapult to get to a different level - in the space/time realm. taking the phi spiral, there are power point that can be plotted on the the spiral - points at which time things line up. an octave in "spiral language" is the moment that a cycle has been completed, but the circle is not completed in a sense, it is completed on a higher rung, level or twist of the spiral.

                                in reality, these "springboards" and powerpoints can exist in many places and can be self created. a special holy moment is not ideal - especially if you are impatient
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    "Is a hologram considered to be a "natural object"?"

                    Sure. But, I'm not aware of anyone that has shown that a hologram can be broken down infinitely. Each division may maintain the whole, but that doesn't mean you can divide the object infinitely. Eventually you're going to get down to the atoms, then the subatomic particles, then the quarks, and eventually you'll reach planck's constant, and I don't know if you can keep dividing beyond that.

                    "Sacred Geometries exist whether we have Math as a language to describe it."

                    do they? how do you define "sacred geometries"? And how do can you tell how something actually is outside of your perception of it through whatever tools you have available to you.

                    "I believe in infinity. To not, generates infinite doubt."

                    My doubt is finite. I do not have enough mind space to doubt infinite things, nor am I convinced that there are infinite things to doubt.

                    "The only way to prove a point is to disprove it."

                    I'm afraid I don't follow.

                    "We rely to heavily on our spoken/written cyst_m."

                    Yes, especially in a place (such as this) that relies solely upon it.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    =) But a party until then, yes?
                    • Always a party going on Michael,
                      only, we have to keep remembering
                      we've already been invited ! :-)
                      • ...and we're already at it!
                        • ...and yes, it's already over.

                          Should I bring a gift?
                          • As it is given, so it is received.

                            You are already blessing us with your
                            presence PUMA,

                            love and much respect,


                            Indeed so Kevin,
                            we are already.
                            great stuff !
                            • thanks!
                              • Nothing is going to happen in 2012, its just another load of new age nonsense. When 2012 passes like every other year, most people will see sense. But inevitably some will argue we just got the date wrong, or will connect every small change after 2012 with the myth. Its human nature to see paterns where none exist, but this is laughable. Also, time does exist, not in seconds, minutes and hours, but as a flow. And the world is not a hologram. Its sad that some people have such a mundane existence they need to believe in such things to be excited and satisfied. And just because some peoples minds can't comprehend time and such things does not mean they don't exist. Wake up and smell the coffee, the world is complex and beautiful enough as it is, theres no need for all this pseudo-scientific, new age, higher purpose, prophecy mumbo jumbo
                                • Judge and be Judged ! !
                                  You have a lot to say of self opinnions'
                                  It is in human nature to see patterns'

                                  You are the sumtotal of your belief systems' in one existence' memory is but an attachment to a gravity suit' holograms store in patterns'
                                  We live inside this holgram of designed and constructed light'
                                  Our brains forming conciousness into concept of matter'

                                  The light you see shines on you from within' there is no thing external to your experience'
                                  The brain the video camera' and you arethe veiwer of yourlife'

                                  Why all the negatives brother of folks seekig nature over material chaos'
                                  We pass through galactic plain in 2012'
                                  We become the reflection of ourselves' the two hemisphers are talking' shall remane talking until we go through galactic plain again'

                                  Youneed to look at he galaxy as the two hemishers of your brain'
                                  Galactic plane is the centre of the two hemispheres' one side is the mirror of the other' the same as your body' the same as the galxy we spin in'
                                  The viel runs down the middle of psychi'
                                  You seem to no understand a simple spinning dual torus !

                                  Keep tracking the love

                                  Yourpost seems quite irrelivant now'


                                  Nobuoni +

                                  Everything is you brother and you are everything ! All connected all the same ! ! Reflection ! !
                                  • Unsu...

                                    Every soul is a notch on the gear,
                                    not a wheel.

                                    We (the mirrors of the pyramid) are seeking portals into the flow of galactic wind.
  • there may be some connection.......i have been astounded at the amount of people try'n/using dmt....i myself have not tried it yet but its coming down the road

    i am suspect that it may start becoming the next 'big' drug coming into 2012

    2012 cant be denied

    we are living in magical times and am thankful that i can witness......

    p.s. transfer your US dollars to gold/silver ASAP
  • Suuuuuuure! If you keep tellin yourself it will happen it will happen! You say a lot of mumbo jumbo, but can't back it up, except with other mumbo jumbo. I would gladly place a bet with anyone that all this 2012 prophecy nonsense won't come true, im serious, we can have a third party middle-man to keep da cash, any takers? And if you want to prove that the world is a hologram then visit me and let me stick a round of bullets in your head, if they pass through you, i'll believe ya! There seems to be a lot of people in here who are taking bits and pieces from quantum theorys and twisting it to serve their own mysticism, stuff that real quantum physicists would laugh at. Its like a new age religion, promising things like time travel, higher purpose, immortality and eternal happiness for some, and the apocalypse for da rest of people!
    • Shane'

      Why come here and spout shit' you obviuously have no clue of DMT' or hyperspace' timelines' quantum or anything for that matter'

      You are subject to your belief system' but because yours is so damn narrow' it just spouts bullshit'

      FOGAL !!

      Gets a profile' get some friends' talk instead of spouting rubbish' then you may get some respect'


      Nganga Nobuoni +

      ha ha ha ha ha 20 years of age and knows it all' unreal for sure'
      • Let's take the concept of Maya as a starting point; everything is illusion.
        What exactly is implied with this?

        Everything is in a state of vibration; oscillation. Our sensory feedback mechanisms construct the illusion of objects where there are only frequencies which stand out against a backdrop of infinite other frequencies. What we don't see is supposedly not there, but in fact, it is. More so even, everything is there, and our perceptions of "presence" and "absence" are merely the result of a deductive process. Reality as we know it is the filtered-out result which permits us to interact with a given set of frequencies in the "foreground" sort of speak. It is this filtering process which allows us to re-late and perceptionally interact with subjects and objects within this extremely narrow band with we call physical reality. It is merely a sensory feedback mechanism which creates all of these assumed relations. Ultimately, they are all observer dependent. There is no reality in the absence of observation, states the Copenhagen school of quantum mechanics. And assuming this to be a valid, in that reality as it is individually perceived is a co-dependent property of the observer entirely, then the world of quantum mechanics appears to have confirmed, in some sense, an already longstanding mystical understanding: Maya, everything is illusion.

        In a nutshell, reality is a co-existing property of subjective observation set within the limits of a sensory filtering mechanism. As such, reality as we know it can never be objective. It is wholly subject dependent. A neutrino particle for instance does not "encounter" any physical form as an obstacle anywhere along its seemingly continuous straight path. Instead, it appears to 'effortlessly' pass through the vibrational matrix of all matter, as if the universe were completely fluid. There are no obstacles, none that we know of at least, forcing neutrinos out of their projected paths. If it could reason, then it would likely perceive a universe entirely free of what we perceive as dense matter. This, to a neutrino, simply does not exist as neutrinos and neurons -for one- resonate at radically different frequencies. Of course, it goes without saying that neutrinos would have little use for 'reason' in a universe which, well, simply doesn't call for any... The object and subsequent reality of any observation is entirely subject dependent.

        DMT, also known as the "spirit molecule" or "spice" is a very powerful fast acting (endogenous) psychedelic compound which is thought to be produced for one by our very own human brains. When DMT is released by the pineal gland or introduced into the system from a plant based or synthesised ('exogenous') source of DMT or 5-MeO DMT (a more powerful and even faster acting variant) and enters the brain, some most peculiar things start to happen. The brain's neuronal sensory filtering process is temporarily inhibited and the mind becomes exposed to the full spectrum of sensory data without sequencing. Circadian constraints dissipate, and the sense of space (object-relation) consequently dissolves as well. With no filtering process in place, the full canvas of 'potential' reality (but this time non restricted by evolutionary external sensory mechanisms) interacts directly with the subconscious mind. In colour theory, an analogy could be drawn with the subtractive system in which white light represents the absolute (all that is) and a prism represents an interface (the mind) which breaks the spectrum down into its components, some of which are "sensible" (visible) while others remain hidden (invisible). In this case, the barely sensible frequencies of the (full) spectrum correspond to the outer limits of our (limited) visual sensory capacities. But the spectrum isn't tailor-fit to suit the limits of our bio-wetware of course. Instead, we evolved to sense strictly that which suits our immediate survival needs. Nature has evolved many sensory mechanisms which peer into differing parts of the continuous spectrum, all of which fit particular survival needs. Continuous is an important distinction! Once our filtering mechanism subsides, through the release of an active dose of (5-MeO) DMT for instance, these limits no longer apply as the mind now interacts directly with, essentially, all that is (was and can ever be) without evolutionary mediation.

        I think of a (5-MeO) DMT experience as a temporary feedback loop of the subconscious mind, bouncing about unrestricted in a 'vacuum' of subjective possibility, until the enzymes kick back in gear and re-establish the 'standardised' (evolutionary) sensory channel (call it a broadcast if you will) by calling all them straying neurons back to their original subject-mediating default positions ;-)


        Thank you Dimi' nicely put brother ! !


        Nobuoni +
        • Trying to catch up here... Almost missed this one. Epic thread! =)

          Thanks for the repost Nobu and your kind comments. Hadn't read that rant of mine in a long time actually. Upon re-eading (here) I almost confused myself, LOL! I am reminded that -together with everything else- our reference point(s) change constantly. Perhaps an overhaul and a re-write is in order.


          Excellent stuff all.
      • I can come here if i want, i can say what i want, if you don't like it well thats your problem. Anyway, i don't rule out the possibility, i just think its on quite shaky ground from what i have seen. There are lots of ifs and buts. Yet a lot of people accept it as 100% true, without even contemplating that it might not be. Its a THEORY at the moment, nothing more. In fact its lots of different theorys tied together to make a story. Should i not come here if i dont agree with your views? Whats this got to do with age? When i get to your age will i be able to judge a persons intelligence through my unbeliveable brain power? Anyway dali lama's prohecy teller is 6yr old girl, she predict that tibet will be free in 2012, now isnt that smart and shes just 6! :D pog mo hon! Jobu
  • Unsu...
    I think DMT takes us many a millions or even billions of years beyond 2012...
    • 2012 is a Gregorian Calendar muddying of the waters of time.
      Out the mud, each thought springs forth like a Lotus flower.

      All organic compunds in our bodies, made sacred, nourishing
      our growing into ourselves, as if we always were right here
      in the garden.
      • A DMT elf informed me they were having way to much fun hanging with the occasional psychonaut so they convinced the high council to postpone the 2012 event for a few years until humans wake up a little bit! They figured fuck it! It's only a calender and time doesn't really exist anyway!
        • A calender of reference points of galactic positioning' given birth of zero-point gravity' evolving expanding conciousness outwards upon the arm'


          Nobuoni +
          • Good stuff! Our minds, when a bit too stuck in the mundane, usually needs some coyote/trickster/elf-medicine,
            towards us becoming more aligned with the flow of being.

            The un-learning part of the (dmt) experience, is very very valuable, towards us realizing we can help each
            other fine-tune and helping each other with reference points that make sense given where we are.
  • Unsu...
    DMT AKA Spice, IS the 3rd Eye Juice. Along with Harmine/Harmaline. 2012 is a date of great significance for the human species as a collective. So my answer to you FireFly is Yes, there is a connection. However the preparation necessary is spiritual and on going. It is not for the date 2012 but the days leading up to it. 2012 is not the end of the world, just the end of the World Age, a 25,625 year cycle known as the precession of the Equinox. On Dec 21, 1998 the Sun Aligned with the Galactic Equator marking a full precession. It only aligns with the Galactic Equator (in the same location, it aligns with the other side the same amount of time, aligning with one side of the Galactic Equator every ~13,000 years.) every 25,625 years. This is not the first time we have been through this event, an Epoch-Elapse as I call them. According to the Maya (and every other native american culture as well as other native cultures.) we will be moving into the 5th world age and leaving the 4th. Or roughly 200,000 years or since the Dawn of Mankind (200,000 years ago would have been a time where there were more than 1 species of Humans on the planet, and would have been the start of Gold Mining by humans.) Anyway... Want to know more about 2012 or DMT... join
  • Im with Dimi on this one ... DMT (and especialy 5-MeO- DMT) ... takes you to a place where time is a construct, a game, a distant memory ....

    2012 is a human construct for people who want to believe that the Gods of Time will draw lines in the cosmic sand ....

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