time as reference during indole

topic posted Wed, December 10, 2008 - 11:59 PM by  Unsubscribed
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I sometimes think of the psychedelic experience as some sort of creature that is in the universe, sometimes it is near and sometimes it is far. And you have to take the sacrament to resonate with it.

When it is far,

and people trip together, sometimes only a few people of the group will "get off", some people wont feel anything, and the trips will vary in intensity.

When this creature is near,

even if everyone only took a small amount, all will get "rocketed", experience the same visions, be extremely high, have very similar experiences.

This creature could have such a large body that it effects your relationship with time the closer or farther away it is, like all large bodys.

(is this maybe why we experience time as slower or sped up depending on where we are in relation to this thing during a trip?)

Which makes me wonder, what would a DMT trip be like if smoked next to a large body in space with enormous gravitational pull (like the sun---maybe minus the fire and heat!!)

you know, since being close to large bodys like these will slow down the demension of time.
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  • Re: time as reference during indole

    Thu, December 11, 2008 - 5:52 AM
    >>>even if everyone only took a small amount, all will get "rocketed", experience the same visions, be extremely high, have very similar experiences.

    My closest experience to this was Grateful Dead shows - when, presumably, the Creature was likely to draw near. So many minds, so many doses...

    I had experienced "contact high" in the early 70's, so I knew it was possible. But at the Dead shows, it was a commonality. Whether I had taken the psychedelic sacrament or not, I'd have much the same experience. Reliably, time and again. Maybe its just me - I have pretty permeable boundaries, and am very sensitive to energies, subtle or not so much. But if I'm with folks who are tripping, its very easy to pick up on the energy, streaming in waves with the universe, the pure life force, ecstatic and free. Merging in that vortex always took me home - just a bit easier and faster with the medicine on board.
    • Re: time as reference during indole

      Thu, December 11, 2008 - 9:53 AM
      time is a total fabrication.

      time is dependent on/ relative to your perception of it.

      the timeless eternal alone is the sole Reality.

      bliss,

      n
      • Re: time as reference during indole

        Thu, December 11, 2008 - 1:38 PM
        a fabrication, and not a fabrication, at the same time...*smirk*...
        • Re: time as reference during indole

          Thu, December 11, 2008 - 1:48 PM
          Truth/Reality/Infinity/1=Same/Still/Eternal/I
          Lie/ Illusion/SpaceTime/All=Change/Motion/None/0
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: time as reference during indole

            Thu, December 11, 2008 - 5:22 PM
            "the timeless eternal alone is the sole Reality"

            this might be true?
            .

            I mean J Krishnamurti and the Buddha both spent their lives devoted to pointing this fact out. Modern day psycho-therapists would call someone who has attained this state a detached psychoid.

            persoanlly I feel that this awarness is just another sign post on our journey, not the destination.

            If there is a psychedelic creature that effects the space-time fabric, it must be very close to children, they experience time as being very slow. Alot of adults have made the claim that psychedelics showed them the world as they has seen it as children.

            My friend makes the claim, that as we experience the world, we start to experience the same things over and over again, this redundancy is what he thinks speeds up time. ?

            memorys speeding up time? Is this why when you trip, you see the room you have always known as brand new, fresh, as tho you have no memory predujice about the objects around you, like a child?

            I think theres a clue in here somewhere, as to the ability to experience the effects of the space-time matrix slowing down and seeing thru a childs eyes.

            Be as the children?
            • Re: time as reference during indole

              Thu, December 11, 2008 - 8:31 PM
              smoking weed destroys the space/time continuum for me and infrequent, breathless gaps expand into eons.

              n
              • Re: time as reference during indole

                Fri, December 12, 2008 - 8:25 AM
                me too. i have had this experience numerous times, when i can see the road behind trucks lifting, when I can seem to halt a falling droplet of water, and slip between the folds of a thought....
                MJ also aided me in a moment of persona analysis that shall forever remind me of Dune's Spice.
                I know this is the DMT tribe... and, i have no right being here (a virgin) but, it is striking how many things I have experienced with good Marijuana, and how remarkable this is. Maybe I should join their tribe? hah
                I get the feeling the waters there are muddy with legal discussions etc.
                Here's a question: if your world vanishes on intoke of DMT, how do you refer to time?
                Isn't this an eyes open discussion?
                • Re: time as reference during indole

                  Fri, December 12, 2008 - 8:59 AM
                  Time has no reference in hyperspace' it is tied to memory'

                  Dialates and becomes eternity is of what'

                  5 mins can seem like thousands of years'

                  All this is based on focal point of reference'

                  You have no conciousness focal point in hyperspace' this is why everything morphs'

                  If you stare straight ahead on the way out' the crysanthium opens and you fall into it' as of when through the crysanthium' the only references you can get are from memory and looking at the light'

                  If you look back to body' the action of memory ties you back into time/ gravity'

                  So I see time time tied to gravity'

                  You lose all attachments' to any outsider looking on' you have passed out'

                  Left your bodies memory completely'

                  If you attempt to hold on at lift off' everything curls with immence pressures'/gravities' until something snaps and your light body bounces off into the light matrix'
                  As of when in the ligh matrix' there is no time' because you have no reference to measure from'

                  Everything becomes constant eternity'

                  So time is an illusion bought about by perseption to body memory' reference location' gravity'

                  Bliss

                  Nobunoni +



                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: time as reference during indole

                    Fri, December 12, 2008 - 9:12 AM
                    and bare in mind
                    if you get some good tokes
                    you will be soaring at the speed of (light/mind?)

                    Either way....it's fucking fast.

                    Physics has interesting things to say about what happens to time at extreme speeds...
                    • Re: time as reference during indole

                      Fri, December 12, 2008 - 9:51 AM
                      Yes' time/space dimension is tied to velocity'

                      Bliss

                      Nobunoni +
                      • om
                        om
                        offline 69

                        Re: time as reference during indole

                        Fri, December 12, 2008 - 9:54 AM
                        i feel like time/space is a product of my thoughts...

                        smoking herb destroys my thought-tree, uproots it completely.

                        then i feel like there is no time, just infinite space.

                        bliss,

                        nishu + (hehe motu)
                        • Re: time as reference during indole

                          Fri, December 12, 2008 - 9:58 AM
                          "Time exists to prevent everything happening all at once; space exists to prevent everything happening at all the same place."

                          Indeed events require a space and a time, for we cannot measure the position of anything except at a particular time and we cannot measure the time anything happens except at a particular place. This insight led Einstein to conceive a model of a four dimensional space-time continuum.

                          But how are these different dimensions, length, width, height, and time, to be connected? How can you measure the space-time separation or interval between two events?

                          Think first of two dimensions, the surface of a sheet of paper, for example, of length x and width y.
                          The shortest distance s between two opposite corners is given by Pythagoras' theorem:
                          s2 = x2 + y2
                          If we now go to three dimensions, the shortest distance between two opposite corners of your room, for example, one on the floor and the other in the opposite corner on the ceiling, where the room is x long, y wide and z high, is given by:
                          s2 = x2 + y2 + z2.
                          So what happens if we go to four dimensions, and measure the space-time interval between two camera flashes, for example, one happening at one corner of your room and other happening at the opposite corner but a few seconds t later?

                          We might think the answer would be:
                          s2 = x2 + y2 + z2 + t2, but we would be wrong. There are two things wrong with it.

                          First of all Einstein had been working on a problem, how to make Maxwell's equations independent of the observer's frame of reference, which would mean the velocity of light is equal for all observers as discovered by Michelson and Morley. He realised that these problems would be resolved if he adopted an idea of his colleague and lecturer, Minkowski, that the t2 term should be subtracted, not added.

                          Secondly we are adding "dollars and euros", the dimensions of the terms in the equation are not right, we need a conversion factor, "a rate of exchange", to convert one into the other before we can add or subtract them. The conversion rate that turns time into distance is a velocity we call it c, so if c is measured in kilometres/second and t is so many seconds, then ct will be so many kilometres.

                          So the correct equation giving the space-time separation s between two events becomes
                          s2 = x2 + y2 + z2 - c2t2, and now there is one more refinement to make.

                          Rather than measuring the distance across an extended interval of space-time, it is important to deal only with the separation of adjacent events separated by a infinitesimal change in the coordinates, dx, dy, dz, dt. This allows the possibility that space-time might be 'curved', just as the surface of the Earth is curved into a sphere, although it looks flat on a small scale, or alternatively like the surface of a saddle. Or perhaps like that of a Popperdom, all 'hills and hollows'. So the correct expression of the infinitesimal separation of two adjacent events is:

                          ds2 = dx2 + dy2 + dz2 - c2dt2, this is called the metric of flat space-time. If we want to include 'curved' space-time then we put a coefficient, not equal to one, in front of each term dx2 etc. In order to find out the separation between two events such as a distant super nova exploding and the event being observed on Earth you have to add up, or integrate all the infinitesimal ds intervals along the light path.

                          So you can see that the answer to why speed of light should be involved in a theory of space-time is that a velocity has to be built into the geometry of space-time to adjust the dimensions of the terms in the equation for the metric. Now it so happens that when we work out the kinematics of moving particles using this metric we find that for a moving object the mass measured by another observer increases as the velocity relative to that observer increases. When the velocity approaches the velocity c the mass approaches infinity, in other words no particle with rest mass can travel at the velocity c. However, photons of light have no rest mass and in a vacuum they have to travel at this velocity. Therefore the velocity c is the velocity of light in a vacuum, and we find it has to be built into the geometry of the space-time continuum.

                          Bliss

                          Nobunoni +
                          • om
                            om
                            offline 69

                            Re: time as reference during indole

                            Fri, December 12, 2008 - 10:08 AM
                            since everyone's perception of time is unique and different from each other's, doesn't that make it relative, and therefore, essentially, unreal?

                            n
                            • Re: time as reference during indole

                              Fri, December 12, 2008 - 10:14 AM
                              the quickest method of space/time travel is by the folding of the space/time continuum, so one can near-instantly be teleported, if you will, thru holes in the fabric of space/time.

                              not dependent on velocity.

                              your idea of speed, like time, is also relative to your own, unique perception of it.

                              two entities traveling @ the same velocity can experience two altogether completely different things, including their perceptions of how fast (or slow) they were traveling.

                              bliss,

                              p
  • Re: time as reference during indole

    Fri, December 12, 2008 - 2:46 PM
    Excellent thread!


    Classic quote (from memory):


    They say time passes ...

    Alas, not.

    Time stands still, we pass.

    --sorry, can't remember ;-)
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: time as reference during indole

      Fri, December 12, 2008 - 4:14 PM
      Phillip K. Dick suggested that we may share space-time with "Zebra", a hypothetical giant inteligence that we cant see because it disguises itself as the whole environment.....

      Nubo said- "time has no reference in hyperspace it is tied to memory"

      My friend sais,-"the accumulation of memory speeds time up"

      Einstiens space-time demension states that large bodies in space slow time the closer you gt to them.

      Children, experiencing everything new, experience time as very slow.

      Adults acquiring memory experience time as speeding up.

      Adults under the influence of psychedelics claim they experience the world as they did as a child including the sense of slow time.

      So if time has no reference in hyper space because of there being no memory, and getting older, acquiring memory speeds time up, then what effect would having ALL possible memory have on time, being omnipresent if you will???? Would it be the same as time experienced in hyperspace?? I dont think so??
      • Re: time as reference during indole

        Fri, December 12, 2008 - 9:06 PM
        In that senario Cinn' I see this'

        The omnipresent being' would perceieve space flying past towards' but it would be standing still' as Dimi said' also this space would bend back on itself until it looped'

        Omnipresent being would be the dot in the middle of this donnut' watching the donut spin'

        Time is tied to gravity' the same as light'

        But back to the ole addage' "Time is the illusion' it has no substance outside of mind' it is only relative to the observer' or the observed'

        Bliss

        Nobunoni +
        • Re: time as reference during indole

          Fri, December 12, 2008 - 10:55 PM

          The omnipresent being' would perceieve space flying past towards' but it would be standing still'' also this space would bend back on itself until it looped'
          Then that loop( O ) would reflect itself' ( O ) reflected ( O )' creating of an hour glass votex' bringing about "Zero point creation" to infinity'

          Omnipresent being would be the dot in the middle of this donnut' watching the donut spin'
          Omnipresent being would be outside of time' because Omnipresent being has no velocity'
          it gathered so much knowledge/gravity' it would fall in on itself' and then travel through and out'
          It would become a child again' at "Zero point" because it is able to start moving again in the opposite direction'

          Relative to the dot' Omnipresent being would no be Omnipresent for very long'
          Gravity would see to that' and then velocity would start all over again' after Omnipresent being fell in on itself'


          Bliss

          Nobunoni +
          • om
            om
            offline 69

            Re: time as reference during indole

            Sat, December 13, 2008 - 10:48 AM
            <<< "The omnipresent being' would perceieve space flying past towards' but it would be standing still

            Omnipresent being would be the dot in the middle of this donnut' watching the donut spin'" >>>

            fuckin' awesome description!! great imagery!!

            thanks bro

            n +
            • Re: time as reference during indole

              Sat, December 13, 2008 - 12:18 PM
              agreed'
              I think dejavu is when the loop is near a familiar node... you say: "wow, this feels familiar"
              and, it is because you are near a path in the past that had resonance with this one.
              I also think, we could be inside a creature so large, that we are as electrons on the surface of a molecule in the nostril of this "Zebra"
              In fact, I think at times, we are not "in" it, but they pass through our space, and keep moving, as we blindly "live"
              • Re: time as reference during indole

                Sat, December 13, 2008 - 2:32 PM
                I think dejavu is when the loop is near a familiar node...

                I agree'

                We create of conciousness patterns through mind' that have their reflection inside of universe mind'
                These patterns cause reflections'
                As of when we percieve a similiar reflection to one that we hold in memory' the lines of the patterns align'

                Hence recognition'

                To add' the patterns made of mind' mind the mirror' casue reflections onto everything' it is these reflections that we see and experience as our lives'

                I feel we are but a cell inside of a mighty being'

                Micro-cosm' macro-cosm'

                Time is only releativeto the observer' so a million years to us' is but a twinkle inthe eye of the great beast'

                Bliss

                Nobunoni +
                • Re: time as reference during indole

                  Sat, December 13, 2008 - 3:01 PM
                  Space is more of a reference. Landmarks help. Maps are worthless.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: time as reference during indole

                    Sat, December 13, 2008 - 3:34 PM
                    great discriptions everyone, my head hurts!!
                    • Re: time as reference during indole

                      Sat, December 13, 2008 - 5:50 PM
                      I believe that the omnipresent being/self would be like a point of sigularity; like this '.' ; like the one true atom.
                      The smallest of the small and yet greater than all. The one and only true reality=me.
                      The one true I/eye; with the hollow graphic universe seemingly taking place within, but not really.
                      • Re: time as reference during indole

                        Sat, December 13, 2008 - 6:55 PM
                        The dot'

                        The mirror and the reflection'

                        All energies inwards to a point' outwards' curving back to the point' the likes of a dual torus in spin'

                        The gravity in the middle feeding the motion'

                        The important bit would be the dot' for it is the gravity of dot centre that feeds the rest of the reflection' no thing lost' only recycled through "Dot"

                        Omnipresent dot' he he he'

                        All is connected' even space has substance or it would be called void' and yet even void can be percieved'

                        Voidless space ???

                        Bliss

                        Nobunoni +




                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: time as reference during indole

                    Sat, December 13, 2008 - 9:21 PM
                    actually, I have figured out how to time travel:
                    Send out book marks, for instance: send out symbols that we can recognize when we get there.
                    umm... let me rephrase this...
                    ok, so, you want to travel through time... (I know your all advanced, and, let's not get back to basics, we know about gathering mass as we close the gap between speed of light and slowing time... and then, reaching speed of light, and then surpassing it, thus... or so, going backwards...) We are going to talk about just getting there ok?
                    Getting there, we need to get there, and leave something to land on again.... So, if we send something there first, we will be able to find it later.
                    That is what I mean. Book marks.
                    I sent my self a book mark, for age 40, and forgot it, so, I look forward to meeting myself then.
                    That is just one small way to do this. To send your self a note into the future... You can do this kind of thing from the future to the past too!
                    • Re: time as reference during indole

                      Sun, December 14, 2008 - 4:10 AM
                      Shadoan'

                      You are saying' reflect patterns into the future as sign posts' so by reflection as of when we get there' Daja vu ?

                      What was this book mark you sent yourself ?

                      Question' how can I send myself a message in the future' so that I am able to read it now'

                      I would have to travel'

                      Time is bound to velocity' so I would have to move faster' than the light I percieve now'

                      Quote' You can do this kind of thing from the future to the past too! How ?

                      Bliss ~

                      Nobunoni +
                      • Re: time as reference during indole

                        Sun, December 14, 2008 - 6:05 AM
                        Fascinating thread....For reals, though!!

                        To those of us who have been "turned on", and have felt things streaming through our 3rd eyes...

                        Here's a homework assignment.....

                        Take a balloon, fill it with Nitrous Oxide, and breathe deep....

                        You might be surprised by the results!

                        To those of you who think this post is irrevelant in this thread....Think again, suckers!

                        wade
                        • Re: time as reference during indole

                          Sun, December 14, 2008 - 6:38 AM
                          Sorry wade nitrous has only one use' inhale deeply as of when at the platue of an experience' become suspended' expanded' timeless'

                          On it's own it sucks and just starves you of needed oxygen'

                          Cheep nasty hit' that still shots and warps time' Bz Bz Bz Bz wang wang wang twang twang dong' then you pass out'
                          I can see no learning in that at all'

                          Be safe'

                          Or are you saying Nitrious distorts ones perception of time'

                          Ketamine does' stick you in your own coloured hole' but that is crap also'

                          Be well

                          Nobunoni +

                          Just my take on these two substances
                          I would say Nitrious inhailation kills brain cells' the same as alcohol' by starving the brain of oxygen'
                          • Re: time as reference during indole

                            Sun, December 14, 2008 - 10:49 AM
                            <<< "the quickest method of space/time travel is by the folding of the space/time continuum, so one can near-instantly be teleported, if you will, thru holes in the fabric of space/time.

                            not dependent on velocity.

                            your idea of speed, like time, is also relative to your own, unique perception of it.

                            two entities traveling @ the same velocity can experience two altogether completely different things, including their perceptions of how fast (or slow) they were traveling.

                            bliss,

                            p" >>>

                            did anyone here catch this earlier post of mine?
                            • Re: time as reference during indole

                              Sun, December 14, 2008 - 11:02 AM
                              Yes "I am here"

                              I believein Master Yodo'

                              Quote' from you'

                              two entities traveling @ the same velocity can experience two altogether completely different things, including their perceptions of how fast (or slow) they were traveling.

                              Yes' but relative to the hub' they travel at different velocities' no unto their own perceptions' but the hub's perceptions'
                              Everything must have a root' asource'
                              The obsever can change the observed'

                              In order to calculate your moves you must have 3 vantage points' +' then one of those vantage points' has to be tied to a root hub'

                              Otherwise you only live duality' of which only creates of reflections of itself without projections'

                              No thing can have direction through 2'

                              The crossroads holds 3 and past' of which is known' 4

                              In order to move' you must have projection' = 3 +

                              A singularity can no exist' because it is a misnomer' it has a reflection' in order to exist' 1 +1 = 2

                              Projection takes the mirror and the reflection and reacreates of it's own projection' creation'

                              (hungry for food?) Yes ! ! + ! ! ! + ! ! ! ! + ~

                              1 has only a reflection 2= to move by projection 3'

                              1 has no existence to our way if seeing' because we are bound to 3d' by gravity'
                              Gravity makes us look backwards to move forwards'

                              Keep the conciousness patterns clean'

                              3 steps forewards 2 steps back ~

                              Then you can take of 2 and create of projections with knowledge'

                              Time is the illusion' relative to mass/knowledge=gravity=time'


                              Bliss

                              Nobunoni +

                              (sp)
                              • Unsu...
                                 

                                Re: time as reference during indole

                                Sun, December 14, 2008 - 12:10 PM
                                Nobu

                                About nitrous, I would have to agree that it is basically horse shit after awhile, gets you no where, maybe the floor. But Ketamine, i would have to differ. I have been EXTREMELY FAR OUT there with K. Actually, when I hear your discriptions of IBOGA (something I have never tried) It sounds like how K makes me feel?

                                I see dead people on K, have met up with old relatives who passed away years ago. K puts me face to face with the creator energy that is within me, very gentle.

                                I never used to believe in practices like Rieki and such, until I found my own body making the traditional magical passes well on under the influence of K.

                                But you know, 95% of the people I have ever witnessed doing K, dont get anything near what I experience. I see people flailing around and yapping, puking and all the retarded antics.

                                Myself, i lay down in a dimly lit atmosphere, eyes slightly shut, maybe some light minimal music, and man I feel like I experience such an amazing amount of information coming thru. Like Salvia and DMT, consciousness gets unhooked from the body and you travel all over the place and run into other people and the such, and its very gentle....unlike DMT (for me sometimes DMT physically hurts)

                                but anyway....
                                • Re: time as reference during indole

                                  Sun, December 14, 2008 - 2:50 PM
                                  PP: "your idea of speed, like time, is also relative to your own, unique perception of it."

                                  "did anyone here catch this earlier post of mine?"

                                  Yeah, sure did. You were actually making sense! =)


                                  Nobu: "A singularity can no exist' because it is a misnomer' it has a reflection' in order to exist' 1 +1 = 2"

                                  You may wish to rethink this statement. Outside your given dualistic framework, of course ;-)

                                  The word can have different meanings. In astrophysics, for instance, it is postulated that a singularity exists inside of a black hole. It means something entirely different in trans humanism. It can also be taken as a trans dimensional state of consciousness; one which transcends all dimensions (a singular unlimited mind). It exists mathematically. References to God have been tossed around as well...


                                  On ketamine, it is most definitely recognised as part of the main entheogenic psychoactives (next to mescaline, psilocybin, thc, lsd, dmt, mdma). Ketamine can be very useful and meaningful when administered properly. It is also physically addictive, however. Regretfully, most people have a tendency of abusing this compound, usually in conjunction with other habit forming compounds.
                                  • Re: time as reference during indole

                                    Sun, December 14, 2008 - 3:17 PM
                                    Oops. Forgot to add iboga to the list of main entheogenic psychoactives.
                                    • Unsu...
                                       

                                      Re: time as reference during indole

                                      Sun, December 14, 2008 - 4:30 PM
                                      When ever I do a thought experiment, its like the powerful tool of discription takes off with a life of its own, until finally its dualistic nature decribes something that sounds good on paper (like singularity vs duality).

                                      Its hard to get past the psychology and come up with something that actually resembles the universe .

                                      Thats why I really like abstraction, it breaks away from ridig explanations, is fun like painting, I think im to right brained to follow most discriptions of the universe anyhow.

                                      Instead of seeing the world of atoms and electron spin, I find it helpful to envision such things as creatures and things, I guess its like being stuck in a mythical age ha!
                                      • om
                                        om
                                        offline 69

                                        Re: time as reference during indole

                                        Sun, December 14, 2008 - 5:41 PM
                                        really though.....

                                        natural psychedelic entheogens are the nectar of the Divine Mind...

                                        the plants have shown me, rather re-minded me that I'm making all of this, my thoughts @ least, and that there is no solid entity known as "mind", it is just a collection, series, & multidimensional jigsaw of thoughts...
                                        kind of like a rubber-band ball, the mind is the rubber-band ball, each individual thought is a rubber band, and once you pull apart all the thoughts, all the rubber bands, you're left with nothing....

                                        n
                                        • Re: time as reference during indole

                                          Sun, December 14, 2008 - 6:25 PM
                                          Ihave experience with Ketamine' 100mg intra-mucular many many times' killed "H" withdrawal' but left me dope sick and wanting more K'

                                          As to the info on K' I agree it can be most awesome' but to try and bring all of that light flying back' is ni impossible'

                                          The visions on Iboga seem to be real' as of when on K I feel like I am experiencing a dream'

                                          You ingest enough Iboga and another world superimposses itself' becomes perseptible' over this one' the likes that it there all the time' but can only be accessed through Iboga'

                                          You can interact in real time with these folks' speak with them as I would speak to you' they answer as you would to me'
                                          No other plant has ever shown me such clarity of two worlds I live in at the same time'
                                          All the other plants seem to have to push me somewhere' giving you immence buzzes'
                                          There is no buzz on Iboga' you no feel high' low' no thing' until you try and move' then you realise your light body is no longer anchored to your physical self s it normaly would'
                                          You got to eat a lot of Iboga to get there' and initialy you get mashed up good stylee' tripping your balls off' but with no twisted emotion/body load stuff'
                                          As of when you come back from Ibo land' you are extremely tired' the Ibogaine converts to 12 hydroxyibogamine and you take off psychicaly' never to return to the land of the living ever again'
                                          You lose physical attachments' become a spiritual being' kind of imbalanced I might add' becasue you dwell in the spirit realms all the time' and if you no take control the spirits shall consume you' so you have to learn a lot of deep stuff very quickly in order to protect yourself from possesions' and generaly getting you psychi kicked about' If you no take control it physicaly hurts'
                                          The psychi becomes overloaded and the energies fry the body'

                                          Through Iboga
                                          folks you no know (ancestors) come and sit on your bed and speak with you' no dream like state' you can only see them with eyes closed' you feel almost normal' meaning there is no pressure through the experience at all' you feelstraight until you try and move'
                                          Unlike Ketamine' you are unable to move for an hour plus and it completley disconnects you from' so called normal reality'

                                          The only disconnection from so called normal reality through Iboga is eyes open' of which looks very similiar to mescaline'

                                          I dislike the body load on Ketamine' as I dislike the load from many entheogens' but I learnt to ignore my physical reactions to these substances and get on with the task at hand' but I dislike Ketamine immensly'
                                          I have no control of mind as of when K holed'

                                          Dimi

                                          I have no knowledge of physics' black holes and such' I bend my psychi is all to see of what I see'

                                          In our dual peception world 1 can no exist without the other' one is the reflection of the other' there is no one' but one and it's reflection' otherwise it could no exist'
                                          The mirror has a reflection' one side of the reflection is light' the other side of the reflection is dark'
                                          In my book that makes 3' the mirror' light and dark'

                                          1 is a constant' always traveling in the same direction eternal'
                                          2 is arguement or =/opposites
                                          3 is decision to move'

                                          I try to keep things simple if my psychi will allow that is'

                                          Always enjoy to come here and bend it with you folks'

                                          Many Blessings'

                                          Be well

                                          Nobunoni +


                                        • Re: time as reference during indole

                                          Mon, December 15, 2008 - 1:32 PM
                                          om, that's actually a pretty neat description, almost poetic. I dig it!

                                          You say "you are left with nothing." What is "you"?

                                          Thoughts, once they form, are eternal. They become part of the "invisible" landscape. Also sometimes referred to as "elementals." A more recent term is "meme." A collection of thoughts is referred to as a "meme-plex." Check out Dawkins if you haven't yet and are interested in this subject. Point is: every thought is a thought in the mind of the universe. So... be mindful with them ;-)


                                          Nobu: "In our dual peception world 1 can no exist without the other' one is the reflection of the other' there is no one' but one and it's reflection' otherwise it could no exist' "

                                          That's a fine definition of dualism. You cannot place singularism within dualism for it transcends all. A singularity cannot be perceived. A singularity can also not perceive itself, at least, I don't think so. It's like consciousness, which cannot be observed (or observe itself) for it cannot step out of itself. There's nothing to step out or into, because consciousness encompasses everything. What's beyond everything? ;-)

                                          A singularity is a (context pending) concept. A valid one none the less.
                                          • Re: time as reference during indole

                                            Mon, December 15, 2008 - 1:54 PM
                                            Dimi

                                            A singularity is a (context pending) concept. A valid one none the less.

                                            One can step into itself' becoming' constant one reflected' one' to infinity curved' only the distance from one to one reflected through itself' would have any concept'
                                            Concept one has no velocity'
                                            so is bound to dualities concepts'
                                            Infinity is even bound by memory/gravity~ hence the curve'

                                            At this time ~

                                            I can go no further bro' only the other way'

                                            1d 2d 3d 4d etc

                                            Bliss

                                            Nobunoni +
                                            • Re: time as reference during indole

                                              Mon, December 15, 2008 - 2:06 PM
                                              Nobu, all that is valid, from a dualistic reasoning point.

                                              Singularism is not part of the known observable universe, hence it is pointless to try to approach it with dualistic reasoning.
                                              Point-less, gettit? =)


                                              This is a subject which made for some truly interesting debates in physics class. The interesting thing is that singularism is perfect subject matter in many fields, say theology or philosophy (of _). If there is a genuine interest on your part, then perhaps you should investigate further, as I don't think that this forum or all of tribe.net's server capacity provides sufficient room to disprove singularism as a concept ;-)

                                              Blessings bra'h, always.
                                              • om
                                                om
                                                offline 69

                                                Re: time as reference during indole

                                                Mon, December 15, 2008 - 2:34 PM
                                                you guys, it just clicked.

                                                what nobu is describing about E-bogah sounds a LOT like another entheogen, one very much sacred to Shiva...

                                                Dhatoor (Datura)

                                                the alternate, alien scenarios spontaneously popping up, superimposed on "normal reality", the communicating with beings that are RIGHT there but no one else can see hear or feel them, the genetic memory thing.....insane....

                                                i have smoked datura flower once........

                                                n
                                                • Re: time as reference during indole

                                                  Mon, December 15, 2008 - 4:37 PM
                                                  Datura is dangerous as hell. Many unsuspecting westerners paid the ultimate price finding out for themselves.

                                                  However magnificent and potent Datura is in its own right, this one requires extreme caution, care, understanding and respect.
                                                  So much I know.

                                                  Call me chicken, but I've never felt any interest in "testing" her, or in letting her have her ways with me ;-)


                                                  om/pp, I appreciate *you* being here. Since you know I won't permit your alter ego to post anything offensive (the 'devious' reason for why he was created I suppose), you might as well just keep posting as om, no? Might also save you the trouble of having to log in with different accounts. God knows I'm having trouble logging in with just one sometimes ;-)

                                                  So what was it like, smoking Datura? Any time-dilution?

                                                  Blessings,
                                                  d.
                                                  • om
                                                    om
                                                    offline 69

                                                    Re: time as reference during indole

                                                    Mon, December 15, 2008 - 5:19 PM
                                                    it was crazy.

                                                    i picked the flower many years back, in the summer, when i was walking home from a friend's house. i saw it growing in some person's yard.
                                                    it was a white datura flower, couldn't tell what species; don't know what species people cultivate around here (maine)

                                                    i rolled a cigarette with tobacco and the datura flower (they are both nightshade "relatives") and felt a little high, strange weird buzz and warping, then just euphoric, and was like "wow", then went inside, laid down on my sofa, and went to sleep...

                                                    ...only in my "sleep" i was fully awake, and still laying on the same sofa in the same room, it was the same time of night, and the closet in the room started banging violently and i got scared, then out rolled a baby demon that was wrestling with me, and it was winning, it was strong and trying to possess my soul and a host of demons were around me, like a militant demonic assembly having fun with me....

                                                    i killed the baby demon, i remember, slayed demons, my hair grew out in dreads knotted on top and going down my back like Shiva,
                                                    i awoke in the same room again, it was bright morning, everything was good again and i felt a good female divine presence that felt pleased with me....

                                                    n
                                              • Re: time as reference during indole

                                                Mon, December 15, 2008 - 5:19 PM
                                                dimi3: "Singularism is not part of the known observable universe, hence it is pointless to try to approach it with dualistic reasoning.
                                                Point-less, gettit? =) "

                                                Isn't a singularity what happens when there is so much pressure of mass (such as at the center of our galaxy) gathers in a rotating and shimmering sphere of no return for all energy?
                                                If for instance, an observer was in some state of being that it was capable of living while being near enough to the event horizon, it would perceive time as slowing down, until its awareness became a constant: Ommmmmmmm, then it would start to be pull into the singularity, bit by bit by bit... At least, this is the explanation I got in school..... Now, what isn't explained is, " what is observation" (at least, not until college usually, is philosophy taught (damn shame)). Even the most eloquent of us can't put this into words to translate trully what would take place.
                                                For us, observation of Black holes is limited to a bright Gamma, Xray, and hazy light blotch, or scream on a radio...
                                                This means, also, math observes. And so we see what the star would be like to be a Black hole before we "see" a black hole.... If one can call this a star.... For, at this point, it would be as intermingled with Galaxy matter, arms, and stars are hard to tell apart...
                                                Now, some would say, if you could some how use a Black hole as a Jovian Catapult, then you could gain speeds past the speed of light... And so, go back in time. The theory of Relativity says E=mc^2 and, I have been told that when your speed is .99% you gain mass inverse this proportion thus, attracting even more mass because somehow when you are heavy, this attracts more mass to you...
                                                So, you would have to have a way to shed the weight, like, have a skin that rids you of photons...
                                                So, any way, maybe this experience of entheogens, and dreaming, and life, and thought, maybe we are the inverse of a black hole... We have only come into existence because of the motion of mass, stars out gassing, galaxies scattering like droplets after a bowl is shattered from a bullet.... We, this whole universe, and all that is in it, are like a shaky deck of cards, that constantly tremble, constantly shake with this motion.
                                                When I step on a frozen lake, the ice sags slightly giving off a groan, and a crack... I hear the groan of ice crystals sinking beneath my boots... This weight I have, it puts pressure on these crystals, giving off heat.
                                                So what is standing up there? Up above the universe?
                                                Can we assume it is a reflection of our day to lives here?
                                                I think we can assume it is not!
                                                Just as there are patterns that reflect them selves at different scales, there will be patterns up there.... far above the thin layer of our universe... but are there humans up there? Most likely not. But, perhaps there are beings, at another scale that reflect a typology of : life form.
                                                And this is actually likely. Just as water spins into a vortex as it goes down the drain, there are vortexi forms in the suction into the black holes of a universe... There must be places where something like planetoids have been rolled up around spheres of compressed "matter". Then on the surfaces of this cooled and condensed spheres, there are whiskered creatures that eat each other...

                                                So, when I take salvia, I feel this world slip away... and a vortex forms between all these other resonant scales up above the ice!

                                                But, also when I meditate on this, I start to feel this tendrils of awareness, and could, if I chose (without getting high) sit down, concentrate, and feel this iris open up, and these minds flow through me.... OMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmm
                                                With practice, this becomes more and more capable...
                                                And reading ya'lls post, really help too ;^)
                                                • Re: time as reference during indole

                                                  Mon, December 15, 2008 - 5:36 PM
                                                  om, that is crazy!

                                                  Thanks for sharing. Truly wild...


                                                  Shadoan, nice description! Really enjoyed reading your thoughts. Like I said to Nobu, the word (singularism/singularity) can have a few different meanings and refer to different concepts. Your description applies to astrophysics. Allow me to share what I wrote in a pm to Nobu just now as I'm about to pop off here and go to bed (it's 2:33 am here).

                                                  Blessings,
                                                  d.

                                                  --

                                                  The singularity it is a concept, to me at least. It may forever remain in the hypothetical domain. The word also has different meanings.

                                                  I suggest you take a look at Anders Transhuman Pages [ www.aleph.se/Trans/ ]. I find this to be an excellent resource. There is plenty of info there on the singularity as it pertains to trans humanism. Just dig a bit and see what you find, instead of me pushing you in a certain direction. Keep in mind, this will cover one meaning of the word, not all.

                                                  I also personally believe that mind in it's purest form; the universal mind, exists outside of time and space. Rather, that time and space are but properties of this single mind. This essential universal mind, as the creative force behind everything, hypothetically, can be considered a singularity. Considered by whom? Ahah! It can't be considered by anything; no observer. It is a concept with a paradoxical nature. It cannot be observed for there is nothing outside of it, given that it is everything. If this universal something was aware of itself as a whole, would it realise it is everything? Could it? Would that matter, outside of time/space? Outside of everything?
                                                • Re: time as reference during indole

                                                  Mon, December 15, 2008 - 5:49 PM
                                                  Shadoan' a lot to concider there bro'


                                                  Isn't a singularity what happens when there is so much pressure of mass (such as at the center of our galaxy) gathers in a rotating and shimmering sphere of no return for all energy?

                                                  Surely it would fall through on itself' hence traveling eventualy the other way'
                                                  The energy would reach critical mass and implode'

                                                  It is this damn concept time/space' that we keeplooking through that fogs the view'
                                                  A way foreward would be to forget about it completley and re-build the model without it ~

                                                  And that shall be my next journey after I get some kip'

                                                  Much appreciated folks'

                                                  As layman' we sure have got a lot going on' in our psychic manipulations'

                                                  Many Blessings
                                                  Much love

                                                  Nobunoni +
                                                  • om
                                                    om
                                                    offline 69

                                                    Re: time as reference during indole

                                                    Tue, December 16, 2008 - 1:24 AM
                                                    is Dhatoor anything like E-bogah?

                                                    ?

                                                    om
                                                    • Re: time as reference during indole

                                                      Tue, December 16, 2008 - 10:43 AM
                                                      Simply put Om

                                                      No'

                                                      You no get transported anywhere' the spirit realm superimposes over our so called normal world'

                                                      You can only see the spirit realm with eyes closed' eyes open looks like it would through mescaline' kind of'

                                                      There is no feeling of being disconnected' you can speak to the sirits and also speak with foklks in the room with you' as you normaly would'

                                                      You only realise you are under the influence of something as of when you move' mostly there is no distortions of perception at all'
                                                      Your mind stays clear'
                                                      Eyes open ther are intricate patterns everywhere and kind of chinese lanterns' to look into the spirit realm' you peer through the veil'
                                                      Your body stays here'
                                                      I pray this makes sence'
                                                      I have tryed Datura and found it to be extremely uncomfortable' and the vision where bizzare to say the least' to the point of becoming completley manic and dillerious'

                                                      I love your account Om' sounds absolutely awesome to the max

                                                      Many Blessings

                                                      Nobunoni +
                                                • Black Hole Tech

                                                  Thu, December 18, 2008 - 4:57 PM
                                                  www.newscientist.com/article...les.html
                                                  WHAT does a drop of water have in common with a black hole and an atom? Well, levitating water droplets can now simulate the dynamics of both cosmological and subatomic objects.

                                                  Richard Hill and Laurence Eaves at the University of Nottingham, UK, turned to water droplets because the surface tension that holds the drops together can be used to model other forces. For example, the event horizon of a black hole is sometimes thought of as a "stretched" membrane with a surface tension. Similar forces also prevent atoms from flying apart.

                                                  The team levitated the droplets using an effect called diamagnetism: when an external magnetic field was applied to the droplets, they created their own opposing magnetic field, initiating a repulsive force strong enough to counteract gravity. To set the droplets spinning, they implanted two tiny electrodes, which generated an electric field.
                                                  • Unsu...
                                                     

                                                    Re: Black Hole Tech

                                                    Thu, December 18, 2008 - 7:08 PM
                                                    My mind tells me that you can only comprehend a singularity from within one?

                                                    Datura, I have quite a bit of experience with this one, well not massive, but I have experienced 6 large doses over the period of 2 years. And I will NEVER EVER try Datura again! In fact I made this promise to the plant my last time out in exchange for my life back.

                                                    The first time was the best time, it was everything and more!! Once ingested, you will fall asleep, with an extremely dry throat and feeling like your made of heavy lead.

                                                    Once you awake from your sleep, the world just doesnt make sense for hours and hours. You keep finding yourself in different places in different situations, doing different things, but you are in fact not doing any of these things, they are hallucinations, very real hallucinations!

                                                    You cant speak english on Datura, your words come out all short of breath, mumbles, and the only people who know what your saying are the other people on Jimsom.

                                                    The hallucinations are not psychedelic in the traditional sense in anyway. there are no colours, geometrys ect. Actually, the main theme that I saw everyone tripping out on over those 2 years, were themes of blood, worms, maggots, dogs, thorns, piercings and spiders.

                                                    I remember pulling a long maggot our of my forearm and watching it break off, thinking to myself that I hope it does not lay eggs inside me!

                                                    The hallucinations are as real as the everyday here and now, constantly thinking that you are smoking a cigerette, that does not exist.

                                                    had a friend who took off her under wear from under her dress in a dairy queen, climb onto the table and pee on the table, she then began to cut at her leg with a plastic kinife, the police were promtly called, and this was a relativly normal girl other wise.

                                                    Alot of my friends ended up in a holding cell that first night we experimented, we were un-prepared that is for sure.

                                                    Some of us could not find our way out of the hotel room, so started to pile everything in the room and attempt to get out thru the ceiling!

                                                    I would be sitting in bed and think that I was actually walking in a field somewhere, In the field I met an old indian man with long white hair, he pointed out across the field, there was an enormous beats, all black and cover with spikes all over. this beast started to run at us, zig zagging its way across the field, it meant buisness!! As it got really close, it towered over me, a hunched down helpless......then I found myself back in the closet where I started!!

                                                    One of the funniest things I remember, was walking into the bathroom, there was a friend with one leg in the toilet, puking green vomit (i dont know what he ate!) onto his leg, I ask him if hes alright, and he sais "im a cement truck"!!

                                                    I know these storys sound like a bunch of reprobates, but we were teenagers having a blast with life, it was all good!

                                                    Jimsom weed is DEADLY, there are some of us who have never been the same since those few times, and it has been 15 years since. I AM VERY THANKFUL that it was not I who went permanently insane because it can happen. My heart goes out to those whos lives Jimson weed has wreaked.

                                                    I dont know if this video is real or not, but it feels real.
                                                    www.youtube.com/watch

                                                    I usaully dont try to use scare tactics while giving an opinion, but the dangers are real with datura.
                                                    • Re: Black Hole Tech

                                                      Fri, December 19, 2008 - 4:07 AM
                                                      OPIUM ! ! !

                                                      Bliss

                                                      Nobunoni +
                                                      • om
                                                        om
                                                        offline 69

                                                        Re: Black Hole Tech

                                                        Fri, December 19, 2008 - 10:18 AM
                                                        <<< "Jimsom weed is DEADLY, there are some of us who have never been the same since those few times, and it has been 15 years since. I AM VERY THANKFUL that it was not I who went permanently insane because it can happen. My heart goes out to those whos lives Jimson weed has wreaked." >>>

                                                        yo, please don't diss the plant just because you and your loved ones have had difficult experiences with it, or died, etc....

                                                        Dhatoor is very sacred, and considered one of Shiva's 5 most favorite and holy plants.

                                                        Dhatura can superimpose completely alien-seeming landscapes and environments over the "normal" reality, complete with terrestrial nuances such as rough rocky pebbles and dust beneath your feet, fresh air, cool winds and pervasive scents -- these are NOT hallucinations my friend -- "Reality" is re-organized at a much higher level when you take Dhatura.

                                                        Dhatoor can be one of the most benevolent, loving, loyal and powerful beings you could EVER befriend -- i know this from experience, i'm not making things up. She can and will protect you from evil -- she only gives you as much as you can handle -- and if she likes you she'll bend over backwards for you at your request. She is also good friends with the cannabis plant essence -- which in itself represents the transcendent, non-dual consciousness -- and so if you smoke Ganja before and meditate, then take Dhatoor flowers (don't fuck with seeds till you're a Yogi or a Shaman) then you will have a great time friend.

                                                        So, in closing, i'd like to say PLEASE DON'T SAY MEAN AND/OR UNTRUE THINGS ABOUT DHATOOR -- She is a lovely and wonderful Spirit.

                                                        n
                                                        • Unsu...
                                                           

                                                          Re: Black Hole Tech

                                                          Fri, December 19, 2008 - 12:19 PM
                                                          sorry to offend you.......

                                                          Im just speaking my truth about what the plant has done and shown me,

                                                          It sounds like you have found your allie with the Angel trumpet.

                                                          My intentions were not to "diss" the plant all. Maybe words read over the internet can be interepted in many ways because of the lack of emotion.

                                                          Fact-Jimsom weed can be DEADLY

                                                          this is not a diss......

                                                          As far as im concerned, myself and my friends are more sacred then the plant, so I bow down not.
                                                          • om
                                                            om
                                                            offline 69

                                                            Re: Black Hole Tech

                                                            Fri, December 19, 2008 - 11:42 PM
                                                            <<< "sorry to offend you......." >>>

                                                            You didn't.

                                                            i just don't want lies being spread about Dhatoor.

                                                            n
                                                            • Re: wild card

                                                              Sat, December 20, 2008 - 8:00 AM
                                                              om, are you suggesting Cinn was lying?

                                                              Who's to say you aren't 'lying'? For someone who continues to use an obvious alt (PP), your credibility isn't exactly... well, you know what I'm saying. Try to be a little bit more thoughtful rather than dissing someone's personal experience like that. Warnings about indiscriminate use of Datura are completely warranted. Datura *can* be very dangerous. That happens to be a well established fact. I'm glad you had a jolly good ole time with her. You most likely didn't consume as much as others, who weren't so lucky or cautious, have... With Datura, MANY variables apply, more so than with any other psychoactive plant it seems. Consuming Datura is for all intended practical purposes a wild card.
                                                              • Re: wild card

                                                                Sat, December 20, 2008 - 11:23 AM
                                                                warnings of danger help keep naive people from doing dangerously ignorant things, and serve as a guide post...
                                                                • Re: wild card

                                                                  Sat, December 20, 2008 - 5:04 PM
                                                                  Both are right. I experienced Datura twice, and will also never venture back because it was clearly not my ally. I have nothing but reverence for those who can find kinship inside of her, but for me she is too harsh a mistress. First time orally was in Hawaii where the plant grows prolificly along the roads in the countryside. Gorgeous Brugmansias also grow there and are a somewhat popular admixture to Cannabis, and I had tried Datura in that way before I tried ingesting. I boiled a soup out of stems and drank that, the experience was almost identical in many ways with LSD except for tachycardia, sweating, and the most profound cottonmouth I have ever endured. The visions were intense but not personally rewarding, fields with characters moving that never coalesced into anything I could identify, and the movement was rapid and disorienting. Colors were remarkably clear and sound was present in the space, but I simply could not resolve anything. Not a bad trip, but my body was unhappy with what I had done with it. Second experience was in Arizona alone in the desert in the Coronado National Park. This time it was a cooked down tea of a small handfull of flowers. This time I had at first a much clearer experience - at first I heard it coming on like a wind blowing down the arroyo and it overwhelmed me immediately in a pool of colored liquid that seemed to be every color in the rainbow represented as an imiscible fluid that was churned forcefully like the entire pool was being shook up and down. That was the last I remember. The next morning I was shirtless and shoeless and about a half mile from where I took the potion. I had the profound sense that where I was was not where I belonged. I tend to listen to the medicines and heed their advice and have never visited since. I have similarly been rejected from Salvia until I explain to my Parents exactly what I am doing and why. Hard to tell Catholics that you are seeking wisdom, knowledge, and the ability to give aid from the use of Psychedelic drugs. Until I find a proper, or at least reasonable time to tell them or they find out on their own, I will leave Salvia alone. Spice welcomed me, but I ventured in a little casually and was reprimanded and told not to do it alone, and to clean out my psyche a bit before I return. I could come back at will, but would have to endure much before I could move forward. Creepy, but again I will be heeding the teachers. I do not disrespect any teachers, and in fact am in awe of all that I have encountered, but caution is necessary and this is not an endeavor for party-animals and those without respect for the teachers that they are going to encounter. This is a vocation and not a vacation. Heed the call if you must but you have to listen with all you've got.
                                                                  Enough respect OM, it is a powerful ally you have and I hope to become as close to an ally myself while I remain in this space.
  • Re: time as reference during indole

    Thu, December 25, 2008 - 3:03 PM
    This may have been posted once already, here or elsewhere, I don't quite remember.

    An interesting illustration. Not an end all IMHO, but still, effectively executed.

    Imagining the Tenth Dimension

    revver.com/video/99898/...th-dimension/





    PS: there may be more than 10 dimensions, say 11 or as many as 26 ;-)
    • Re: time as reference during indole

      Thu, December 25, 2008 - 3:21 PM
      Ok' I have walked this walk' talked my talk with you folks for many months'

      I no beleive in coincidence'

      I study stuff'

      I have just been studying of why ten dimensions' something about US requireing of that many to have enough space to fit our models in'

      This happens once a month'

      I should record the time and the event' but I am to bussy droping attachments'

      Thought to share

      Bliss

      Nobunoni +

      Themirror has a reflection' one step ahead of the mirror' because we reuir to put something in the mirror for to reflect in the first place'
      Unless we are the mirror'

      We comesthrough ath this time' instead of I' me' or your'

      Collective reflections

      Peace ! !